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View Full Version : No, really, I don't ever want to be in a band again


seaneldon
24 Sep 2009, 12:30
Bear with me, this WILL involve recording!

A couple-three years ago, I made the executive decision within to stop playing in bands, forever. It's just too much square ego trying to fit into a small round hole. Rarely does everyone in the band (or "collective", as my friend likes to call it) actually identify/follow their role in the group, touring gets very mentally/physically exhausting, it's too much fucking work for nowhere near enough pay, and it's not something I can just do "for fun" because I don't think being in a band is that fun in the first place.

Oh, and there are few things less enjoyable than band practice.

Since I've been at Mercenary, I have started writing and recording some stuff of my own...quite pretentious, masturbatory, undanceable dork rock. I like it. I overdub myself onto myself with drums, guitars, bass, keys, "singing", other noise-making things.

It comes out pretty good. My engineer brain and my musician brain don't really work well together, but I find some sort of miserable medium for them and can manage to "finish" songs. I am well aware that the result would be TREMENDOUSLY better if I wasn't playing/focusing on performance and emotion, or if I wasn't engineering/focusing on audio, which borders on being the same exact thing, and the COMPLETE FUCKING OPPOSITE.

But I do it anyway. Sue me. Please don't sue me. You'd probably win somehow.

Adam and I are planning to put out a split 10" or LP sometime in the near future. My ridiculous crap and his rather awesome instrumental/trippityhop/hash music. Rather than me on one side and him on the other, we're gonna scatter the songs into each other to make it the least cohesive release possible. Tentative release title, "SPECTACULARITY". Start begging your local records stores to preorder 25 copies.

So last night, my mission was to start recording my "side". I've been putting it off for about 3 weeks now and the ball'n'chain was working late last night. Didn't hurt that the shop's fridge was nicely stocked with a new Dogfish Head brew and a 12 pack of Smithwick's.

I want these recordings to feel and sound much different than the stuff I've done up to now. All the songs I did last year used different gear in different places and different instruments and different everything on different days, but they all have a VERY similar vibe to them. It sounds like I overdubbed all over myself. That's all it will ever sound like.

It's also a lot easier for me as an engineer when I can cut the entire band live, at once. I can immediately commit to sounds that compliment each other, I can record the room, I can use the good bleed to fill in holes sonically, and it just GELS better.

So this time around, I've decided that I will start the recording by doing all electric instruments direct with no click, then putting down the vocal. The music is EXTREMELY rhythm-based, a lot of start/stop, but the lack of drums at this stage isn't too big an issue. A lot of the rhythm is established by the other instruments, the drums just kind of follow along (because I'm not that great at the drums and I write most of the songs on a guitar or piano).

Upon completion of the "bed", I will set up a bunch of reamp lines to a bunch of amps set up near the drumkit...just like I would do if recording a regular band of 4 or 5 guys. Then I'll pipe the vocal through a small PA, and drum along with an entire "live" band without the need for headphones. I can't stand wearing headphones when I play music. Completely ruins it for me. I want to be SURROUNDED by the music, not have it darting into my brain at high speeds.

So last night, I decided to give this little experiment a shot.

I arrange the "band" in the Mercenary warehouse like I've done in the past. Guitar amps on either side of the kit and sort of facing outward, but not too much...gotta be able to hear them easily without turning them up too loud. I like working a bit under "stage volume" when doing a band in a single room. The dynamics between the players tends to be a bit better, everyone listens a little harder when it's quieter, all that good stuff.

The bass amp is behind the kit, facing the opposite direction, using the inventory shelves as hilariously good gobos. Mic the room, spot mics on the amps, drums with mono overhead and kick...7 mics all-in.

These are songs I've never "heard" before, save for single melodies or progressions in my head, or the beat, or the vocal. I'm pretty sure I have it arranged well, but then again...I've never heard everything going at once. It's very exciting that I'll be able to instantly hear this music in all its (lack of?) glory, have it surround me.

I set up pre-fader sends to three busses (MONO OUTPUTS! THANKS, APPLE!) for the DI tracks in Logic pull down their channel faders. Record-arm all of my mics, hit play, and run outside to the live room. It takes me about 4 minutes to get all of the amp tones working together, sounding really fucking good and with good level balances between them.

Go back to the control room, sit, have a listen...

The right side guitar amp is too far out front, it's overwhelming the balance in the stereo room mic that I don't want to move. Easy, push the amp back enough to not fill up the room mics, but still far enough from the drums so that the C12 over the kit doesn't hear more guitar spill than ride cymbal.

The bass mic, a new ELA M251E in figure-of-eight, needs to come a bit closer to the speaker (a 15 in a dual 15 cabinet) so as to further pronounce the deep-bass stuff with the proximity effect of the mic.

Left side guitar is glorious. It's a chain I've used a million times before with a speaker that seems to only get sweeter with age. I love when things like this exist.

Okay, now I'm really excited. I hit record on the machine and mosey out to the traps. I don't expect this to be keeper-level at all, because its the FIRST TIME I HAVE EVER PLAYED THIS SONG ON THE DRUMS...but it doesn't hurt to record it. It's digital. I have infinite erase, undo, and redo.

The right guitar counts off the song and I get into it. Bass comes in after a few bars, along with the other guitar. This feels fucking CRAZY. I feel like I'm the drummer in a band, only this band is really smart and isn't playing louder than they need to, the "singer" can apparently hear himself very well and hits every note without a problem, the guitars are playing with great precision and the bass thumps along in the background without being too busy.

"This is a pretty good fucking band! And only one of us is drunk!"

I pound through the song a couple times before I decide that I'm definitely struggling with it. The material is very complex and challenging, and sort of suffers from ADHD as far as structure. I start cycling individual sections of the song and trying really hard to adapt to the bed tracks and fit the drums in nicely. I don't record any of this...just working it out...

Then, it hits me.

THIS IS BAND PRACTICE. I just sucked myself into band practice, only this band doesn't ever stop and will not budge on the parts they play! NIGHTMARE.

But I can hear past my percussive mistakes, through all of the pauses, and I can sense that the FEEL is there. In SPADES. A million times more than recording all in overdubs.

I practice the tune for about 30 minutes, and then decide it's time to call it a night. There is simply no way I'm going to nail a take down tonight. No big deal, there's not many mics to put away and I can do it in the morning.

I learned a few things, for sure. I learned that I need to practice the drums more. I learned that despite that fact, I'm a lot better at the drums than I thought I was. I learned that there is nothing better than playing music alone, but not by myself.

I also learned that the MBTA did away with the 11:15pm train back to Browntown, so I cracked open another beer and prepared to sleep at the shop. Great.

When I ACTUALLY record this stuff, I'll be sure to take you all through the process with pictures and audio and all that jazz. I simply didn't accomplish anything last night.

seaneldon
24 Sep 2009, 12:39
OH.

And I learned that I probably need an assistant.

Mixwell
24 Sep 2009, 12:43
OH.

And I learned that I probably need an assistant.

And a........

A) Live Guy

B) Guitar tech,

C) Bass tech

D) Drum tech

E) Runner for enough Beer to cover all the players.

Baz
24 Sep 2009, 14:56
"This is a pretty good fucking band! And only one of us is drunk!"

HA!

I'll be following this endevour as it develops, warps, morphs what have you ..

Good read, sean.

seaneldon
25 Sep 2009, 12:43
The idea is that it won't "develop" so much as "be completed, easily".

If this starts "developing", there's a very well-tied noose hanging from the ceiling in the live room.

I'd like to take this moment and thank Dan in advance for tying that beautiful knot.

Max Gain
25 Sep 2009, 13:26
Sean-- All that started from "really, I don't want to be in a band." You sound like me when I'm on my second piece of Nicorette. Give it up!!!

Baz
25 Sep 2009, 16:17
The idea is that it won't "develop" so much as "be completed, easily".

If this starts "developing", there's a very well-tied noose hanging from the ceiling in the live room.

I'd like to take this moment and thank Dan in advance for tying that beautiful knot.

Ok, well then I'll be following this endevour as it -develops, warps, morphs what have you ..:)

Jon Nolan
25 Sep 2009, 19:32
i am digging the reamp'd "band in the room" idea. very cool idea, man! i'm stealing it. gonna give it a whirl too. you first though. if it sucks, i never wrote this or considered doing such a thing.

seaneldon
25 Sep 2009, 20:27
if it sucks, i never wrote this or considered doing such a thing.

Really, outside of musical performances and operator error at the desk, how could this suck?

I already got a sense for how this "comes out". It feels like a good band in a room if the DI'd performances already feel good. Not wearing headphones makes it feel even better.

Peter Black
25 Sep 2009, 21:13
The idea of playing to Re-amped tracks is F*cking brilliant if possible you should post some video of your solo jam sessions.

Zachg
25 Sep 2009, 21:54
This should be interesting, the reamped band idea is a pretty neat trick, might need to nick that one.

Jon Nolan
26 Sep 2009, 02:50
Really, outside of musical performances and operator error at the desk, how could this suck?


i was just kidding :) definitely a sweet idea. ingenious even!

dry humor just doesn't translate on the interwebs. especially sub-par dry humor!

SoundEng1
26 Sep 2009, 09:10
Then, it hits me.

THIS IS BAND PRACTICE.

Wow!

Did you record any of it? I like to hear your tones, Especially that 251 on Bass.

seaneldon
26 Sep 2009, 17:04
Wow!

Did you record any of it? I like to hear your tones, Especially that 251 on Bass.

I just got into the studio 15 minutes ago. Making coffee and a grilled cheese, then I'll get started.

Resulting audio will be posted here with pictures. I'll give a "faders up" mix which can be compared to the final product in a couple months.

That noose is looking mighty inviting.

If you're going to AES we'll probably have the tracks running off the RADAR to demo outboard gear...

SoundEng1
26 Sep 2009, 18:20
Awesome :cool:

seaneldon
26 Sep 2009, 22:38
Okay, think I'm done...

No time to post audio right now. Must run to train. Run.

Mixwell
26 Sep 2009, 23:59
Sean,

You'd better get the rest of the bands approval before you post any files.

Jay Fitz
27 Sep 2009, 00:11
No time to post audio right now. Must run to train. Run.

Two words: Zip Car

thenoiseflower
27 Sep 2009, 16:59
Great post Sean. this is the type of thread I hope to see more of on here.

where in boston do you live dude? you should roll thru the oak sometime..

Benny Grotto
27 Sep 2009, 19:32
where in boston do you live dude? you should roll thru the oak sometime..


+1!

seaneldon
28 Sep 2009, 12:17
Great post Sean. this is the type of thread I hope to see more of on here.

where in boston do you live dude? you should roll thru the oak sometime..

I live in Brighton, Comm Ave/Washington area. Hit me up at the shop and we'll figure out when I can come down. Ball'n'chain usually works late so I'm allowed out after dark!

Reviewing the tracks this morning...I've got some re-drumming to do (ugh). The sounds are good but the performance is only 70% of the way there...I definitely felt the pressure of the clock and rushed through it all to make sure I got to the train in time. Big mistake. I'll give it one more shot some time this week...pull an overnighter...kill me.

Whatever, at least I'm very comfortable with the song now, and it gave me something to do on an otherwise lame Saturday.

I'll edit up a snippet of good playing and get it up here before the end of the day. Plenty of pictures, as well.

btheadbtheadbthead

Strewnshank
29 Sep 2009, 12:34
Great post Sean. this is the type of thread I hope to see more of on here.

where in boston do you live dude? you should roll thru the oak sometime..

what a sweet place. Sean, I'm doing something similar to you and am curious to see how it goes for you. I'm hanging on to my band, because we have settled into a nice place boardering hobbyists/aspiring label recording artists (meaning we like to tour because we are buddies and have fun, but no we won't make money), but I'm working hard on being my own musical singularity. Hope to see you at AES.
Chris

seaneldon
29 Sep 2009, 13:15
http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/5212/reampnoose.jpg

So we'll call Wednesday's session a "dry run", which would make Saturday's session the "dress rehearsal".

Everyone...yell at Reese and Dan and tell them they need to shoot video with me some time this week for the "actual" recording. Until then, have some pictures/descriptions/short audio, as promised. Forgive my photography un-skills. I'm a lot of things. Photographer ain't one of them.

Really, the heart of this session is our Little Labs "PCP" (and me, I guess). Takes 3 line inputs, all assignable to 3 instrument level outputs on a matrix. Band-in-a-box, literally. Does some other shit, too, but I'm really just using it for three reamp lines in this case.

http://img199.imageshack.us/img199/1558/reamppcp.jpg

My input list is below. All preamps are API 3124+. When a microphone has an asterisk next to it, that means there was a Shure barrel pad before the mic pre. Outboard patches are in brackets.

1. Kick -- beyerdynamic M88TG* -- [Amtec PEQ-1A]
2. Drums -- TELEFUNKEN C12 (new)*
3. GTR L -- Royer R122V* -- [Empirical Labs FATSO Jr.]
4. GTR R -- beyerdynamic M160 -- [Empirical Labs FATSO Jr.]
5. Bass -- TELEFUNKEN ELA M251E (new)
6. Room L -- AEA R88
7. Room R -- AEA R88

The drums and hi-hats belong to Alex, one of the Mercenary shop guys and an assistant at the Meth Lab. It's an old Slingerland kit in so-so shape...still sounds pretty good though it DEFINITELY needs some work. 18" crash, 18" ride are shop-stock. The C12 is in figure-of-eight for rejection purposes (which worked very well). The bass amp directly behind the drums is the biggest source of bleed and is like 50dB down from the drum signal in this mic. Awesome. The M88TG is buried inside the kick drum, which has no front head.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/6712/reampdrumsc12.jpg

The left guitar is a one-off semihollow with a neck that feels like a Jazzmaster and a tone that's kind of a blend between Rickenbacker and Gretsch. The right guitar is a Becker Guitars "Retro" with humbuckers (BONER). Bass is a Mexican P-Bass with flatwounds that I am constantly fixing because it is constantly breaking. All were recorded direct at my apartment with an Apogee Ensemble.

Left guitar amp is a THD Flexi50 with 2x12 cabinet with one "Longhorn" speaker and one "Vintage" speaker. I mic'd the Longhorn with the R122V nearly dead-center and a couple-three inches back. I didn't sweep the mic, as I've put this mic directly in front of this speaker about 20 times before and never had an issue with the sound. A gobo was used to deal with spill from amp-to-drums and vice versa.

http://img98.imageshack.us/img98/3813/reampthd.jpg

Right guitar amp is a 10-year-old AC15 with proper speaker and better-than-stock tubes. This amp is FUCKING DIMED but still has some reasonable chime...not that this matters because this part is played 90% tapped and with no pick. Sweeping the mic proved to be more about drum rejection than difference in tone (which stayed VERY much in the same ballpark across a lot of the speaker...again, this amp is DIMED).

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/173/reampac15.jpg

Bass amp is actually a guitar amp, a Music Man HD130 with 2x15 cabinet. Sorry Joey...you won't find big hi-fi bass sounds in my music, even with a 251E.

http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/3021/reamp251.jpg

I bailed on having the vocal live in the room. I didn't feel like humping PA speakers around, and the last thing I want to deal with on a sunny Saturday afternoon is a fucking 8 channel powered Mackie.

Here's the setup...

http://img504.imageshack.us/img504/8260/reampband.jpg

The R88 in the room is about 15 feet back, at about head-level. Logo badge is in line with the kick drum. I did not get any good pictures of this microphone. Tough shit.

10-20 seconds of audio in 10-20 minutes...

seaneldon
29 Sep 2009, 14:44
And then, there was audio.

I did a LITTLE more than "faders up"...

Kick drum got the highest peaks touched with a Purple Audio MC77, just to kind of even out my not-very-good playing. Drums were sent to a buss on the console, which got hit hard with a Distressor at 20:1, medium attack and fast release. This was returned in parallel, and a bit too loud in the mix. It's making the cymbals seem really forceful and bright which I was trying to avoid.

Console HPF at 80Hz on both guitars.

Room mics got blow'd up by an InnerTUBE Audio Dual Atomic Squeezebox. Highest ratio, most aggressive slope, slowish attack and not-as-slow release. Blow'd up.

Entire mix got 1-2dB of compression via Dramastic Audio "Obsidian". 4:1, 30ms attack, Auto release. Wonderful. Final mix recorded back into Logic via Crane Song HEDD with no processing. For the purpose of getting this example out quickly, the Logic bounce process did conversion to 16/44.1

Go ahead, pick it apart, keeping in mind that this is NOT product. This is rehearsal with a 3 minute mix. Product later in the week.

HERE YOU GO!!! (http://www.movethemics.com/uploads/reampsongrehearsal.wav)

Jon Nolan
30 Sep 2009, 00:22
totally sounds like a band in a room sean! totally cool. i must try this.

was the "room mix" too wacky to be mic'd usefully?

poserp
30 Sep 2009, 19:19
Nice. I tried something similar before, only without the reamping (setting up all the instruments and leaving all the mics hot as I played each one in turn) and monitoring takes in headphones. Could be useful (from a solo artist perspective, anyways) for more "acoustic" sounding remixes and such.

seaneldon
01 Oct 2009, 11:58
totally sounds like a band in a room sean! totally cool. i must try this.

was the "room mix" too wacky to be mic'd usefully?

The room mics (one AEA R88, a fixed Blumlein ribbon about 15 feet back) are indeed in this mix. That's why it sounds kinda like a room!

I'm sick as a motherfucker. Dayquil comin' out of my pores. Don't know if I'll be into hanging late tonight to record.

level devil
19 Oct 2009, 11:05
Room mic's here compression there... blabla. This is a great song! No one else noticed?

:)

Adam The Truck Driver
15 Nov 2009, 13:48
My slow azz computer...but I like what I heard certainly...complex timing for sure. I am amazed you pulled this off by doing drums last. I was thinking exactly the opposite, but you did it. It is a cohesive song/mix to my ear, and your playing on the drums makes me not want to start playing drums again, fucker...I am depressed.

seaneldon
17 Nov 2009, 18:52
This is a great song! No one else noticed?

...eh...

There's also roughly 2 minutes and 45 seconds of "great song" that you haven't heard. :poo:

Joking...?

Further developments and discoveries have been made in this "not really a band but kinda" experiment...the kind of developments and discoveries that make me wish I'd never opened this Pandora's Box Of Frustration And Tears.

About a year ago today I started recording my album, which I vaguely refer to in the first post of this thread as "started writing and recording my own stuff". I finished it (or rather, decided to stop working on it) after 8 months.

It involved a lot of drinking and very little eating, not sleeping for days (Fletcher used to comment at the extra-pale color my face had taken on), 6,789 instances of the word "FUCK" being shouted at 110dB...all the good stuff.

It was supposed to be released for free/donations online. The guy who runs that "label" (the label that started the free/donations/online thing, mind you) told me it could only be distributed in variable-bitrate MP3 and I kind of bailed. Forgot about it, shelved it, whatever.

I made the mistake of listening to those tracks again semi-recently and came up with the bright idea that it would all come out magically better if I did it with the new "reamp everything all at once" technique.

Frustrating and intensely annoying, yes, but maybe I'm onto something here. A missing ingredient in a lot of record making nowadays is PRE-PRODUCTION. Working things out before the work begins. You must understand that when I write music/songs, I assemble almost the entire thing in my head before ever arm a track. I know the parts, per say, but I don't know how it comes together until I pysically put it together. Call me an idiot. That's the only way it works for me when I'm doing this by myself. I'm not gonna dick around trying to find the right chord inversions and leading tones with tracks armed. It's gotta be done beforehand.

I say "I" a lot. Tons of commas, too.

So yeah, from this day forth, last year's effort was actually a VERY helpful and necessary batch of pre-production sessions.

And now I've gotta fucking record a shit-ton of direct tracks and vocals.

And everyone in the shop is gonna be pissed 'cos they already heard these songs in various phases and forms for 8 months straight.

Consider this the "Survivorman" thread. Whole process. Top to bottom. Will take a long time.

We need an AngryEldo emoticon to go along with BT. btheadbtheadbthead

Mixwell
17 Nov 2009, 21:45
We need an AngryEldo emoticon to go along with BT.

And Frustrato too!

tuvokzeta9
22 Nov 2009, 20:46
+1!


Mad Oak... I've been in there once... PK took me on a tour one day when I was visiting GC Pro. Great room!