I am excited about this forum.......

[Michael Hynes]

Over at another popular forum the neurotic obsession with the tools has
left me wanting........
The farther I progress as a recordist the less the gear actually matters.
(Don't get me wrong, I like gear!)

So to bring something to the Party..

I have been messing with the technique of creating a sense of 3d space with
lead instruments. My trick is as follows-
1 close mic an amp with the usual suspects, I.E. 57, I5, maybe a ribbon.
face the amp out into your most live space so there is ample distance from
source to the 2cd mic. The second mic is an onmi facing away from the source at the max distance you have available.(within reason) Check in mono for phase between the two mics (Reverse the 2cd mics phase if nessesary)
Hard pan the 2 mics and then add a stereo delay with subtle wet mix to connect the two planets.....(timing of song and vibe dictate delay perameters) I will post a sample if anyone is curious.

Cheers,

Michael

[Mixwell]

Welcome to Move the Mics, Michael!

Your technique sounds pretty amazing, especially when adding tweaks with time domain effects in context. I'm a big fan of multi-miking instruments with room mikes and such. Though I only seem to get as far as two microphones. One close, One distant, which is almost ALWAYS in Omni. I see no reason to use anything else, but for Stereo Effect, changing the directionality of the room microphone could create a subtle but potent effect on top of the stereo field pulling you in and out, as the parts project and move. Perhaps trying to layout more of a Stereo Field with my close and mid-distance microphones, seems very useful in capturing more movement and spacial perception, or 3-dimensionality of the instrument!!

Great Technique!

[graham]

Cool - please post a sample.

[Michael Hynes]

Attached is the end of a unmastered tune I just finished with a dreamy peddle Steel rack with above technique......

Bon appetite

Michael

[graham]

I like it. Some very nice R front - to - mid L back movement on the swells. Are you changing/automating the delay in the mix to create the movement?

Some pretty drastic changes when you listen in mono, though. Thanks for posting!

[Benny Grotto]

Cool sound, very deep and dreamy; just a coupla questions: how do you feed the stereo delay? Is it fed by both the close and distant mic? Are the delays fed by the close mic panned to the same place as the close mic, and vice-versa?

[Michael Hynes]

The mics are panned hard left and right and fed to the delay equally no automation. The changes come from the amp hitting the peaks of the stairwell into the distant omni. When I checked in Mono there was not a undesirable comb filtering (which is my benchmark for artificial stereo trickery!)

Open to any suggestions.....

[BT_]

very Bladesteel,I Like That etc..Lanois stuff...I know he is into distant mics along with deep delay...

try different delays...Roland,Korg,Eventide etc..

your stuff is inspiring....

b
t

[SoundEng1]

Very Nice Michael.
Like BT Said, Very Lenois.

[Michael Hynes]

Thanks for the input all you cats.............

[Jacob]

Thanks for the Tip, going to have to try that one tonight.

[Tomasz]

Very cool. I'll give this a try. I've been tracking with a variation on this: one close mic and the distant mic setup utilizing the M-S. four tracks, one take (if the player is up to it)
"4 on the floor" if you will

[Sandyrb]

That's a great steel guitar sound, I love it. I think someone already suggested this but it seems to me that the next step is to have 2 ambient mics (omnis preferably) and pan them hard left and right with the close mic up the center.

Something I've done like this is to put the close/ambient mics into an MS converter so that the close mic becomes the mid/sum signal and the ambient the side/difference. You have to be careful so it doesn't sound disorientating but it gives a really interesting sense of space.

BTW this is my first post here. Hi everyone. :-)

[Michael Hynes]

The reason I don't use a center mic and 1 onmi only because it leaves a
hole in the center for the vocal. (if the lead instrument is weaved in with the singer it has more separation if you work primarily with just L R C in mixing.

[Mixwell]

The reason I don't use a center mic and 1 onmi only because it leaves a
hole in the center for the vocal. (if the lead instrument is weaved in with the singer it has more separation if you work primarily with just L R C in mixing.

Stereo makes you feel different.

<------------------------------------------------------------------------>

But, Stereo is your friend. The "real-estate" between Left and Right, gives us a blank canvas so as to "let the pictures paint themselves" if you will. All the movement in the example really pulls your ear into a real space and performance and how the dynamic moves about in room. These mics seem to really play off each other extremely well, as they all sound like the instrument, [from what i can tell of them]. Sometimes I can get away from the goal and start hearing my multi-mics sound NOTHING alike and completely separate and different without context. When that happens, its best to re-route the strategy quickly. Maybe less mikes...maybe move the mics, maybe move the player.....maybe move the amp, ahhhhhhhh-fuck. MOVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Maybe what we have is cool, I dunno.

Stereo technique using distant microphone placement is insanely useful for largely dynamic performances, certainly like Michael's extraordinarily cool example. Keep em rolling!!!!

[Michael Hynes]

I did not mean to imply actual stereo techniques are not cool........

I use all of these often. I am digging cardinal points and more tracks in mono

with the occasional element popping wide. leaving the center for the bass,

kick, snare, vocals, and leaving out the center is an esthetic phase I am

exploring.

[Zachg]

I need to try more of this stereo/multi mic stuff. I just learnt about m/s from Snady @ Pulsworks and I'd like to experiment with some of this.

Does anyone else have some cool tricks like this?

Thanks!

[ShaneOConnor]

as far as the omni thing, thats cool.

lately i have been using figure of 8 nulled at the amp, focusing on room reflection as opposed to direct signal. a little spacier and I can get it to fit in a mix better and sound more "ambient" while less "roomy" if that makes any sense. it sounds more like reverb.

[ears2thesky]

Hey Disco Hynes!
Cool sound on that clip. I pretty much use M/S for any stereo source since it lets me adjust the mono/stereo balance after the fact. My other "secret" weapon is to use an omni and a figure-8 coincident pair relatively close to the source and vary this blend of the two mics for virtual pick-up pattern changes. This makes it easy to adjust the apparent balance of room/source like switching the pickup pattern on a mic. This really helps to carve out space in a dense mix.
I thought I was pretty slick with this trick until I noticed an article about it in this month's EM. The dual element Josephson mic does this internally. Too bad I don't have an extra $4000 laying around.
The other variation on this technique is to do the coincident pair as the mid mic in a M/S setup for the ability to affect the width and depth of the track during mixdown.

[Sandyrb]

The dual element Josephson mic does this internally. Too bad I don't have an extra $4000 laying around.

I'd offer to sell you our C720 but as it's one of only twenty ever made A) I would be very stupid to so do and B) we'd be asking for a lot more than four grand. ;)

But I really like your idea; I'm going to give it a try at some point. I've messed with the Josephson a bit but I kinda like the idea of using two separate mics.

Cheers,