Two Mics on Guitar Cabinet [Archive]

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Aski

05 Mar 2010, 02:57

I know this is a pretty standard procedure, but I've recently been micing up guitar cabs with a R121 pretty close (4-5") and a large diaphragm condenser about 3-5 feet away.

What I find fascinating is the many possibilities when it's time to place them in the stereo field. The level and panning of each mic gives you so many options.

So my questions are...

Are there any other mic techniques for stereo placement? (Other than the standard X/Y, Mid-side, Spaced pair, and of course the pan knob)

Is there any other tricks for guitar cabs that you fellas have?

What are some techniques for creating depth within a mix?

Zachg

05 Mar 2010, 11:19

Josephson e22S and a D6... for metal guitars. D6 as a close mic &e22 as a room mic.

Running two mono mics on the same source through a MS decoder can be fun too, mono delay on one side, adjust to taste. (Borrowed from Sandyrb)

Josephson C720 on a GTR cab is cool to, but good luck getting ahold of one! (use both capsules, and run that through a MS decoder, huge!) :D

Cheers,
Zach

Mixwell

05 Mar 2010, 12:31

Sandyrb

05 Mar 2010, 21:35

Are there any other mic techniques for stereo placement? (Other than the standard X/Y, Mid-side, Spaced pair and of course the pan knob)
You've pretty much covered the bases but there are a lot of variations on the 'spaced pair' approach. How wide are they? What're the polar patterns? If directional, are they divergent or convergent? Is the source located nearer to one mic to give some natural panning? Sometimes if you whack the cab right in the middle of a widely-spaced pair it can get so wide it sounds a little like two separate signals, which is kinda fun. Also you can mix up your mics for some interesting stereo... a spaced pair doesn't necessarily imply two of the same kind. :)

Is there any other tricks for guitar cabs that you fellas have?
Some interesting tricks (which definitely don't work all the time, please note) would include the following. Taking off the handle of a Marshall or similar and dropping a D112 through the hole (very chuggy). Putting a mic round the back of the cab so there's absolutely no direct signal. With open back cabs, sticking one mic at the back and one at the front, flopping the phase on the back one and mixing to taste... which reminds me; two totally different mics on the same cab with some phase changing can yield unique results. Walking round the room and finding the two points where the cab sounds best, then sticking a mic at each...

I could go on but I don't doubt that there'll be loads of suggestions from other folks too. :)

I can confirm what Zach said; we threw the C720 on his amp then ran the tracks from the two capsules through an MS converter just for jolly. This was a total experiment but yielded an enormous tone. Now all we need is for him to buy a proper amp... JUST KIDDING ZACH! ;)

What are some techniques for creating depth within a mix?
In my opinion, short delays are a real secret weapon. As sound travels at approximately a foot a millisecond, you can roughly calculate your delay times to yield virtual spaces of any size you like. BUT! I also believe that there's no substitute for capturing real depth and using that. If you have real space on your tracks then you add a delay or reverb, the end result seems much bigger / more dimensional than the sum of its parts.

And for certain instruments to retain their 'authority' in all that wonderful depth, the careful use of distortion can be sweet, sweet icing on the cake. :)

Hope this helps. :)

Cheers,

pauly

06 Mar 2010, 13:50

if you are recording a guitarist with an open back cab, place one mic in front. flip phase on the second mic and move the mic around the open back with a pair of headphones until the two mics almost completely cancel each other out then flip phase again. the two mics should be perfectly in phase and will yield big guitar sound.

Zachg

06 Mar 2010, 17:22

Now all we need is for him to buy a proper amp... JUST KIDDING ZACH! ;)

Working on it......... (eventualy!):D

Zach

iCombs

08 Mar 2010, 19:14

What are some techniques for creating depth within a mix?

Put the mic as far away from the cabinet as you need to to get the distance that you want to hear.

1 mic.

Print.

Want it on both sides?

Double it.

The more stuff I do, the more I find that the BEST way to create depth in a song is to arrange your song for your recording...if you want big roomy guitars...get that sound! If that means a separate performance of it, then that's what it means...it's not gonna take up any more track real estate than 2 separate mics. Obviously, there are exceptions to this (and I know that's not exactly what this thread is about), but I find that the direct route (and just getting the sound you want in tracking is the directest of the direct routes) is one that tends to be the most reliable as far as creating the results you want.

That said...I've seen Bruce Swedien set up a pair of 121's in M-S on a guitar cab right up on the grill...and that could be another way to create some space around what would otherwise be a mono source.

Aski

09 Mar 2010, 03:57

Great stuff. Thanks fellas.

burnthair donethat

09 Mar 2010, 06:40

Don't forget about two figure eights at 90 degrees.

Thank you Alan Dower Blumlein
http://www.alesis.com/emails/mar09/images/tips/600px-Blumlein_Stereo.svg.png

i love this image so much it's my new desktop image. i'll get the tat next week:D

Mixwell

09 Mar 2010, 09:24

Nah, you should get Alan Dower's head tatted on your back - huge.

http://mixonline.com/TEC20/blumlein-hof.web.jpg

Mixwell

13 Apr 2010, 22:18

I just reamp'd some fellows stereo - Logic 9 - DI'd "cartooned and processed" electric tracks using our Little Labs PCP instrument splitter, with one side going through a TAB Oahu, miked with a RCA Bk-5 going into a TAB V78M. Then I placed a TELE C12 in Omni, about 20 feet up, in the middle of the room. I patched that microphone into the Mercury M76. The other side of the chain was sent into the direct input of our Hammond B3, w/ rotating Leslie speaker, [placed on the other side of the room] miked by our Josephson C720 which was going through my VT2.

Four Tracks = Sounded awesome for 5.1 score.

Send some LFE from the Leslie. Yes.

Sent = Client Happy.

Mission Accomplished = More to come.

Tim Farrant

16 Apr 2010, 09:13

A close mic on the cabinet, and 2 distance mic's spaced apart in the room will provide a central focus but with space around it. Of course with any room mics the room needs to sound good.

Benny Grotto

17 Apr 2010, 16:20

I recently did a record with two guitar players, one of whom was a considerably stronger rhythm player, the other of whom had a very unique style and tone that really helped defined the band's sonic identity.

In order to make the most of it, the better-rhythm-guy did the usual close-mic'd, hard left/hard right thing. The other guy got a close mic and, a few feet back, a blumlein pair. There were some baffles flanking either side of the cab to tighten up the blumlein pair.

The "unique tone guy's" close mic got panned center with the blumlein pair doing the usual left/right thing. It helped to spread the guitar tone out which freed up space for the usual panned-center elements (ie - bass, kick, snare, vox), as well as keeping the width of the mix intact, all without losing any sense of size or immediacy from any of the three guitar tracks.

Since then, it's something I've been using here and there to fill out the guitar tone a bit, and improve mono compatibility. It can also help with those occasions where the guy you've panned hard left has a radically different tone than the guy hard right, and you're having a hard time creating a L/R balance in terms of spectrum (y'know, like, when one guy is playing a Paul through a creamy mint JTM45, and the other guy is cranking his Strat through a Rat into a Deluxe).