Burnthair's mic problems

[burnthair donethat]

i have a question about mic placement in a live orchestra recording gig.

just did one a few days ago. a 40 piece orch in a 800 seater hall. my main mics were two SDC omni's suspended from a catwalk on the ceiling. around 18 ft away from the conductors head and maybe 20 feet high(stage floor). i had 12 other mics placed to catch string, woodwind and some perc. two LDC omnis were placed about 70 feet from the stage and 60 ft apart


my question is, on gigs like this, there's not much lee way for mic placement? is there any formula to start working which takes into account the size of the room, angle of sound source, mic choice, etc?

the reason i chose omni's for my main was that i was worried of the added bass that comes with cardioids.

i'd like to load some samples if someone would show me how.

[burnthair donethat]

http://rapidshare.com/files/355114237/Mambo_02.mp3.html

i hope this works.

[burnthair donethat]

http://rapidshare.com/files/355115288/LAki_sa_Layaw_02.mp3.html

[Dan]

the reason i chose omni's for my main was that i was worried of the added bass that comes with cardioids.

That's only an issue when the mic in close proximity (i.e. a couple inches) to the sound source; hanging from the ceiling, you should have been fine.

Listening to your clips, the sound quality itself is good, but, it does sound like the mics were getting too much room and that the Lf build-up is likely due to room acoustics and mic choice/positioning. Getting the mics closer to the orchestra would have helped as could have choosing a different pattern.

There are actually a bunch of guys in the Gearslutz Remote forum (http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/) that do this sort of work all the time. There's a thread over there (http://www.gearslutz.com/board/remote-possibilities-acoustic-music-location-recording/133810-best-flying-mics.html) all about fly rigs for mics.

-Dan.

[burnthair donethat]

Thanks Dan! It's always a major crisis when I can't get the sound I want.

[burnthair donethat]

Dan,

There is a definite difference in LF build up between omni and cardioid. The cardioid being a lot clogged up with those freqs. Are you saying that this is due to the room more than the polar pattern?

Thanks again

[Dan]

There is a definite difference in LF build up between omni and cardioid. The cardioid being a lot clogged up with those freqs.

Same mic or different mics?

-Dan.

[burnthair donethat]

Same mic or different mics?

-Dan.
different ones. dpa 4011 vs 4006. i've shopped this question around and everybody said that there shouldn't be any difference but i'm hearing one so i'm wondering what the cause is if not the mics. position? room acoustics? voodoo?

[Dan]

different ones. dpa 4011 vs 4006. i've shopped this question around and everybody said that there shouldn't be any difference but i'm hearing one so i'm wondering what the cause is if not the mics. position? room acoustics? voodoo?

Could be.

Could also be that something's broken.

-Dan.

[burnthair donethat]

awesome. thanks dan!

[Mixwell]

different ones. dpa 4011 vs 4006. i've shopped this question around and everybody said that there shouldn't be any difference but i'm hearing one so i'm wondering what the cause is if not the mics. position? room acoustics? voodoo?

Maybe All of the above. Maybe Move the Mics until they sound right. Maybe there are questionable resonance's near the microphones? Maybe [if possible pre-production is needed] before the conductor and performers arrive - Hire some assistant's to whack some lower octave tom while moving the microphones incrementally and observing their low end reaction in the room. Maybe Move them down to the floor with boom arm, lined up for A/B stereo configuration or similar stereo preference. Maybe use some gentile LP filtering. Maybe use some different microphones.

Good luck with it.

[Dylansdad]

Burnthair
(love the name) Sometime ago a guy who was locally well regarded for his symphonic recording (and had a degree in some type of engineering) told me this" when it comes to recording you have to shut up your brain and listen to your ears" Meaning this is not a science it is an art you have to make the mistakes and find out what is going to work and when for you. Many rock, pop and country guys think "how hard can 2 mics be?" Its a trial and error thing you have too know the music the performers and the room! I have this permanent dent in my skull thanks to the place where we were allowed to set up in the Frank Lloyd Wright designed Universalist church in Madison WI The only reason the recordings their are worth anything is the fact that The guy I worked with had 20 year in that space!
At first my brain questioned his choice of mic, pre, and position but 2 secs of listening justified it all!