What Next?

[Evilcleatus]

I have a new Mac Book Pro with Logic Pro 9, UAD 2-Solo with Neve 88RS, LA-2A, Fairchild, 1176LN, Little Labs Phase tool. 2 x M-Audio Profire 2626, Drumagog, Steven Slate Platinum, Auto-Tune Evo, Audix D-6, Several SM57's & Beta 57's, a couple of AKG 414's.

Ive done a few songs and i'm really happy with the quality...but I'm now looking to step it up again. Should I get some mic Pre's? Thinking Great River & API. Should I get a Summing Box? Thinking the Dangerous LT. Should I start trying to piece together a more pro approach. Console + Mulittrack into logic.

Suggestions

[Dan]

What's limiting you? Is it the preamps? If so, get new ones. Is it your mic selection? If so, get new ones. Is it your songwriting & talent? If so, stop reading catalogs and start practicing more.

-Dan.

[Evilcleatus]

It's not the limitations, it's more of what would be the best step to take next. Based on your experience. I'm thinking that some nice pre-amps would probably help alot and give me a better sound for the money. I just did a metal band and it turned out really good. Really tight lows and clarity on the gtrs without harsh bite. But I also just did a singer songwriter with 991's on Acoustic & vocals and it sounds good with just some HPF and a tiny bit of eq on the mids to make them sit together. But I'm really wondering what I'm missing out on with using only the preamps in the M-Audio Profire 2626 interface. I'm just wondering what will give me the best jump in quality right off the bat for the price. I'm leaning toward 500 series with API & Great river pre's.

But i'm not feeling confident enough to throw out the money without someone with more experience to give me some honest opinions.

[Sandyrb]

I'm leaning toward 500 series with API & Great river pre's.

Both these choices are great peamps. I don't think anyone here would disagree. Personally I'd go for the API because, well, I love the API sound so much I should marry it and have its children. :) But either will serve you really well.

Question is; will the quality of these preamps be able to make it past the next link in the chain? If it's physical audio components then obviously the cheapest / crappiest components are going to be the ones that spoil it all.

But, alluding to what Dan said, technique is far more important than technology. If your results are sounding great then that's cool... but maybe the reason they're sounding great is because, at this stage, your standards are too low! ;) I'm absolutely not taking a pop at you, but it's a worthy consideration.

Cheers,

[Dan]

It's not the limitations, it's more of what would be the best step to take next. Based on your experience. I'm thinking that some nice pre-amps would probably help alot and give me a better sound for the money. I just did a metal band and it turned out really good. Really tight lows and clarity on the gtrs without harsh bite. But I also just did a singer songwriter with the 414's on Acoustic & vocals and it sounds good with just some HPF and a tiny bit of eq on the mids to make them sit together. But I'm really wondering what I'm missing out on with using only the preamps in the M-Audio Profire 2626 interface. I'm just wondering what will give me the best jump in quality right off the bat for the price. I'm leaning toward 500 series with API & Great river pre's.

But i'm not feeling confident enough to throw out the money without someone with more experience to give me some honest opinions.

Find a rental house or a dealer with a liberal return policy so you can try one out in your own place and see if that's what does the trick. Not to be a shill or anything, but at Mercenary, we send out demo gear all the time.

-Dan.

[bitflipper]

Evilcleatus, it sounds like you are in serious Gear Acquisition Mode. Dude, get help!

You are at the beginning of your learning curve. If you stop buying stuff now, it'll still be 2 years before you can fully grok the gear you've got. Seriously, stop and learn how to get the most out of what you already have before proceeding to the "next step". By then, you won't have to ask what to get next, you'll already know.

And lest you think I'm being overly preachy, let me just say that I am a reformed GASoholic myself. I speak from experience.

[cookseyeng]

If your thinking about a mixer check out the presonus 16.4.2 since your using the, 2 x M-Audio Profire 2626 which is similar to that, firewire I'm assuming. It has 31band eq, gating, compression, limiting, filters, efx, click tracks, and plenty of outputs all built in if you cant afford a real console like me :).

[Evilcleatus]

I understand what everyone is saying about making the most of what you have and getting better as an engineer. But I'm not new to audio engineering. I've just been doing FOH stuff for about 14 years and decided I wanted to try studio stuff. Basically I want to give bands a dirt cheap place to record and mainly I'm tired of paying others to record my band when I know I could do it just as well. What I'm saying is.... Im going to build a decent studio. Eventually I'll have some good pre's, a console or summing box, etc. I'm just wondering what to do next that is smart and efficient in getting that little step more in quality that is relevant to what I already have. What is going to give me the better improvement for the money. If it's mic pre's, then good. Ill buy them first, then get a good console or summing box when I get more cash. If it's the other way around, so be it. I just want to get the one that has the biggest immediate satisfaction in improvement of sound for the money. Am I making sense?

[bitflipper]

Man, FOH work must pay better now than it did back in my day...if you're looking to offer bands a "dirt cheap" rate, then how exactly do you plan to pay for all this stuff?

OTOH, who the hell am I to discourage you? If you've got the cash smouldering in your pockets, then go for it!

Microphones are a good place to start when you're looking to burn cash quickly. You've got LDCs covered already, so how about a nice ribbon? Maybe a couple Royers or an AEA R84. Or my favorite vocal mic, the Beyerdynamic M-160, a relative bargain at 7 bills.

You didn't mention what you're using for reference monitors. You can easily drop 2 or 3 grand there. How about those new Event Opals? They're getting rave reviews and they really look cool. I'm looking forward to hearing some next month at NAMM.

As for the summing box, I think they are a scam. But that's just my humble opinion.

[Evilcleatus]

HAHA, yeah, I do FOH on Friday & Saturday nights when I get offers. But I only get $100 to $200 per band depending on where they gig. I learned that working for a club just doesnt pay enough...so I freelance to bands. I'm a Newspaper & Internet Advertising Exec. by day.... music nut by night. I dont really have loads of cash just laying around to wipe my spit with....but I also dont have many bills to pay. Rent, car payment, cell phone, cable bill. That's pretty much it. So I buy toys. Slowly but Surely. I'm definitely gonna get the Royer 121 eventually. I do need some good monitors. I have a pair of Harmon/Kardon computer speakers (Dell Computer Desktop speakers) that I use to get clean up the midrange. They work great! I also have a pair of the old Tapco S-5's and a pair of HR824's. They get the job done. but a buddy of mine has some Adam S3xH or whatever it is. They sound freakin awesome! But his dad owns a sound company up north and he wont give me the hook up. Some friend. haha

So... maybe some good pre's, then some more mics...then better monitors.

Maybe? I value all your opinions. I wouldnt be asking if i didnt.

P.S. I do this only for fun. That's why I want to offer bands a dirt cheap price. It's fun and makes me feel good for a band to be able to record a good cd and not have top pay large sums of money. Maybe if it takes off and clients build, then I'll keep giving the core clients deals and charge the new bands more. I dunno. Whatever. haha

[bitflipper]

Speaking as one hobbyist to another, I'd prioritize monitors before preamps. Bigger bang:buck ratio.

Yeh, the S3A's are indeed impressive. I am an ADAM user (not S3A's though) and I like 'em. Those tweeters are like audio microscopes. Still, your Mackies are perfectly serviceable speakers and I wouldn't suggest going out and blowing 6 grand on new speakers -- especially if you haven't addressed your room's acoustics first.

For a mere grand you can get one of these (http://www.lessloss.com/blackbody-p-200.html).

[Zachg]

For a mere grand you can get one of these (http://www.lessloss.com/blackbody-p-200.html).

What is that??

(Looked it up at another forum, it's effects appear to rhyme w/ Snake Oil...)

[bitflipper]

Yeh, I don't know the emoticon for tongue-in-cheek, or I would have appended one.

The blackbody is indeed snake oil. But it does serve a therapeutic purpose - as a treatment for those with a compulsion to burn money on stuff they don't need. A sure cure for G.A.S. (gear acquisition syndrome) if you actually blow $1k on one.

[bitflipper]

Or how about the Ultra Tweeter (http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina28.htm)? The tweeter that emits no audible frequencies, according to the manufacturer.

[Sandyrb]

Or how about the Ultra Tweeter?

Haha what a bizarre website. I checked out some of their other products... snake oil, snake oil, snake oil... oh wait a minute what's this? Snake oil.

The funniest thing was the covers of old sci-fi magazines on each page; apparently they're interested in science fiction. Oh yeah? No sh*t. :)

Cheers,

[Zachg]

Or how about the Ultra Tweeter (http://www.machinadynamica.com/machina28.htm)? The tweeter that emits no audible frequencies, according to the manufacturer.

People buy this Sh!t?

... and are we off topic or what?

hahahha,
Zach

[pauly]

i would buy more mics and pres, demo if possible... chandlers tg2 is my favorite pre and the api's are nice too but you may not like them. a royer 121 or a 4038 into the tg2 with the 300 impedance engaged kills on guitar cabs.

[pauly]

a summing mixer is a big step, i run logic and i think the internal mixing is very good, certainly better than the standard. i bought a summing mixer after hearing many many mixers and i love it but would focus on mics, pres, my room, monitors, fancy outboard comps and eq before a mixer.

[digital lofi]

Uh, I really think that the website is an elaborate joke/hoax. It has to be be, right? Either way, it's really, really funny. I'm totally getting the Teleportation Tweak (tm) done.

[poserp]

What is that??

(Looked it up at another forum, it's effects appear to rhyme w/ Snake Oil...)

The real meat of the matter is in the refund portion of the terms and conditions. You can only return the thing within 7 days if there's a manufacturing fault (as determined by the manufacturer). And then you have to run a gamut of various "conditions" that can all void your refund, several of which are, uh, rather arbitrary. No money-back guarantee for being satisfied with the product or any of that customer service business here. You're not just dropping a grand, you're dropping a grand with no hope of ever seeing it again whether or not you're satisfied with the product. People who sell snake oil aren't in the business of serving their customers...

[Evilcleatus]

Ok guys, so go check out my page. I only have 2 recordings up. www.myspace.com/greentownstudio
(myspace mp3's sound like crap)

Details on both:

Jonathan Jeter:
Drums: 57's on snare & tom, D6 on Kick. MXL 991 for overheads (before I had the AKG's) Also mixed in some drum samples.

Guitar: Fender Tele, running through some tube pedal the guy had, through a newer fender amp, micd with one 57 to the side of the cap.

Accordian: MXL991

Vocals: MXL 990 (before I had the AKG's)

All ran through a Saffire PRO 26 then to my mac & into logic.

Persecution:
Drums: AKG overheads, MXL991 hihat, SM57 ride, 57's Toms & Snare , D6 Kick, mixed with samples.

Guitars: Recorded with my dual rec & 1960 A Cab, Head has KT66's & 88's from JJ,
Some crappy schecter guitar the guy had. I personally think there's too much gain, but they kept insisting...so whatever.

Bass: GK 1001 RB head, Ampeg 4-10 cab micd with D6 & 57, also DI'd

Vocals: OM2, first 1176 plug then la2a - compressed to hell and back

All ran through MAudio Profire 2626 then to logic.

These are my first EVER recordings. I've only done FOH stuff.

Let me know what you think. Constructive Criticism please, no hate mail.

[pauly]

i cant say much about the metal tune because i honestly didnt like it, the country/rock tunes sounded good but the snare gives away the fact you used samples, i would work on the drum sounds.