Snare Mic Tests

[bleen]

(I posted this over at GS and it's met with tumbleweeds so far...:poo:)

Firstly, this is not meant to be an "X vs. Y vs. Z" post. There's no right or wrong or even a "winner" in my results, just preferences. I did this for my own benefit/education and thought others might like to hear.

Since many of my sessions are on a tight budget, there tends to not be time to experiment with multiple mic choices unless something is glaringly wrong. This can lead to complacency and the tendency to grab what worked on the previous session. I'm of the mind that each session/artist/project is and should be unique, so I always try to mix it up in some fashion, using a different combo of mics/pres/etc each time I go into the studio.

Which leads me to my snare mic tests (and tom mic test that I'll post after the dust settles from this one…). I put up six common dynamic mics that most folks will have access to and put them all through the same test. All were three fingers off the top head of the drum, just at the hoop and pointing three inches in from the edge. Preamp was an API and SSL converters. Don't judge the playing (!!) as I was just bashing away, but that was partly the point. When soloed, I wanted to hear how much hi-hat bleed came through and also the quality of the hi-hat bleed.

What I found interesting was that mics that I didn't expect were some of my faves (in this particular application; again, different drum/drummer/room/etc might give entirely different results).

I've put up 24/44.1 files of the snare mics in isolation, as well as ones with kick mics (D6/homemade subkick) and overheads (4050s) so you can hear them in context. No EQ or compression on anything so these are raw, raw, raw.

I'll post a key for the six mics down the road. Happy listening.heh

Snare Mic Test - solo (http://dongunn.com/audio/drums/snare-solo_mics.zip)

Snare Mic Test - All Mics (http://dongunn.com/audio/drums/snare-all_mics.zip)

[Benny Grotto]

What kinda snare? Also, what kinda heads?

How big is your room?

Just asking cuz these are the kinds of questions that dictate snare mic choice/placement for me.

Interested in seeing which mic is which.

[bleen]

Tama Starphonic maple, 6x14, Evans G1 batter, 300 reso.

Room is 12x23x9, maple floors floated over the slab, sloped ceiling, combination of diffusion & absorption.

Here's the drum:
http://dongunn.com/photos/drums/starphonic.jpg

[Sandyrb]

Hi Don.

I prefer the plain SM57 when solo'd and the e609 when in context. I'm afraid I didn't take much notice of the hat spill.

Hope this helps. :)

Cheers,
Sandy.

[Benny Grotto]

Hi Don.

I prefer the plain SM57 when solo'd and the e609 when in context. I'm afraid I didn't take much notice of the hat spill.

Hope this helps. :)

Cheers,
Sandy.

Did I miss something? Where did it say which mic was which?:confused:

Hey bleen - nice lookin' kit!

[bleen]

Aw, crap! Sandy may have loaded the files into Logic which imports my marker info. No biggie...bthead

[Sandyrb]

Did I miss something? Where did it say which mic was which?

It's in the files dood; your audio software will show it up.

And no, I don't use Logic.

Cheers,

[Benny Grotto]

Ah...I used Quicktime for listenin'.

[bleen]

It's in the files dood; your audio software will show it up.

And no, I don't use Logic.

Cheers,

It's metadata that Logic puts in the file on the bounce. poop!

So, that being the case, here's the key:

1 - audix i5
2 - beta57a
3 - heil pr20
4 - 57
5 - 57 with tranny removed
6 - e906

[Sandyrb]

So, that being the case, here's the key:

Fantastic Don... now what was the reason behind the test? :)

Come to think of it I've got bunches of snare tests ... might post some of me own.

Cheers,

[bleen]

As I mentioned, there sometimes (most of the time??) isn't the opportunity to put up a bunch of mics and test them out in a session. I know what all those mics sound like, but not all together, on the same drum, in the same room, same pre, etc.

This gave me a bit of a "laboratory" setting, but really for my own knowledge and for fun. I geek out on stuff like this. And I sometimes get surprised by the results!

My faves were the Beta57 and the tranny-less 57. I've been using the PR20 and i5 a lot lately, so it was cool to hear things that I haven't been reaching for first turning out to be my faves. If I needed a really fat, Don Henley-style wet fish snare, I'd probably reach for the PR20 because the proximity effect is so pronounced. But on this drum, it just sounds tubby and artificially bottomy.

[Sandyrb]

This gave me a bit of a "laboratory" setting, but really for my own knowledge and for fun. I geek out on stuff like this. And I sometimes get surprised by the results!

This is just the same kinda stuff as I do with our fledgling engineers, to get their ears and brains working. I also learn loads of stuff (IOW make mental notes for later sessions). :) Actually I've got a friend from this very forum joining me on the 28th to do even more of this bananas and I'm looking forward to that more than I am the 25th, bah humbug. :cool:

So here's one I prepared earlier. Like you I'll give the key out later, but I would be very interested to hear your / other peoples' preferences in the meantime. This isn't a practical, real-world application because some of these mics can't be used on a snare drum as part of a kit in a session. But it'll be interesting nonetheless if not for that very reason alone. The drum in this case is a Ludwig Accent Combo 14x6.

Cheers,

[bleen]

Cool! I'll check these out when I'm at the studio!

[bleen]

I like #2 best, Sandy. I'd blend in a bit of #8 (the last hit) because it has a really cool squishy attack.

[Sandyrb]

I like #2 best.

An interesting choice sir because that's actually my favorite snare mic right there, the Josephson e22. :)

So here's the list:

Josephson C42
Josephson e22
Beyer M201
Electrovoice ND868
Audio Technica Pro37R
Electrovoice RE20
Shure SM57
Neumann TLM103


So, as I alluded to earlier, there are a couple of choices there which would probably never make it to a drum kit (on the snare, at any rate) but were included just so the fledglings can learn to use their ears. The cheeky little buggers got me to do a blind test as they switched randomly between them too. Surprisingly I didn't score too badly except I kept getting confused between the M201 and the SM57. I guess they must sound similar to my ear.

We're always doing this kind of stuff. If I have time this evening I'll find another one.

Cheers,

[Sandyrb]

Okay here's another one. For some reason I did this one to a stereo track and there's a reverb on it... can't imagine what I was thinking. There are a couple more strange choices in this one... but I like to mix it up a bit.

Come one, come all, declare your favorite! :)

Key to follow soon.

Cheers,

[Weiss-Sound]

Here's what I noticed without reading any of the other posts.

1. Snare one seems to have a lot of open-ness to it. As the shell tone is very prominent. Clearly steel. Really nice body and snap on the harder hits. Definitely wouldn't be unhappy with this mic.

2. Mids seem a bit "soft." The ring is still very clear, but the definition is a little blurry. Not terrible, but not great.

3. Similar to 2. Different texture, but overall very similar.

4. This one seems to really emphasize the shell a lot. Again, there's a softness to the mids.

5. This one is similar to 1. But for whatever reason, there seems to be a bit more of the super highs/air in it - or perhaps those highs are just translating in a harsher way.

6. This one is very middle of the road in comparison to the other ones. Feels a bit less "present" than the others.

I know I'm not supposed to pick favorites, but for general purpose I would opt for #1. The others are all decent, but 1 seemed to really give a clear detailed picture of the whole snare. Now I'm going to read and find out what mics they are!


Edit: Ok, read the post. Didn't listen for the hat bleed. oops. Have to listen again. Totally failed the snare call. Also failed previous argument/discussion with drummer buddy of mine where he was saying i5 is "best" on snares, and I said I just toss a 57 on there. I'll have to tell him.

[bleen]

1. Snare one seems to have a lot of open-ness to it. As the shell tone is very prominent. Clearly steel.

Go have a look at the pic of the snare above.:cool:

[Weiss-Sound]

This is just the same kinda stuff as I do with our fledgling engineers, to get their ears and brains working. I also learn loads of stuff (IOW make mental notes for later sessions). :) Actually I've got a friend from this very forum joining me on the 28th to do even more of this bananas and I'm looking forward to that more than I am the 25th, bah humbug. :cool:

So here's one I prepared earlier. Like you I'll give the key out later, but I would be very interested to hear your / other peoples' preferences in the meantime. This isn't a practical, real-world application because some of these mics can't be used on a snare drum as part of a kit in a session. But it'll be interesting nonetheless if not for that very reason alone. The drum in this case is a Ludwig Accent Combo 14x6.

Cheers,

Wow, these are way more distinct than the first set! I saw the key for like half a second, but I don't remember it. So here's my impressions.

1. Tons of smack, not too much shell. Very focused. Only qualms are that sustain seems a bit short - kind of thins out the overall sound, and the frequency concentration seems pretty high pitched.

2. Lot of shell, lot of body. Room sound stood out more, longer sustain and release. Very detailed. I like this one a lot - even though the shell sound is a bit much for me.

3. Feels like a middle ground between 1 & 2.

4. This one is no good to my ear. Upper mids are scooped out. Sound is blurry and a bit "thin" in the detail respect.

5. This one is decent, kind of like 3. Not great, but not bad. Gives you everything with a decent picture.

6. Apparently these are feeding a compressor. The white noise at the end weirds me out. Otherwise, very similar to 5.

7. Very nice. Detailed, represents all the frequencies very evenly. I'm digging this one.

8. Big pop in the upper mids! It's not natural, but it definitely picks up a lot of snap. I like this one too.

I like #2, #7, and #8. If I could only pick one I'd go with #2.

Edit: Ok, read on. I can hear why you like it. I might have to consider an investment. I have an i5. Maybe I should add the Joe.

Edit edit: 1,200$ mic, right. I'll stick with the i5.

[Sandyrb]

Hi Matt, welcome to Move The Mics. :)

Thanks for taking a listen to the snare tests we've been throwing up here.

Apparently these are feeding a compressor. The white noise at the end weirds me out.

Actually, a confession; the channel that one (the RE20) went down was a little filthy, hence the noise. There's no processing at all. But at least it shows it was a good ol' fashioned analog console, warts 'n' all. :) I guess I should add; well spotted.

Ok, read on. I can hear why you like it. I might have to consider an investment. I have an i5. Maybe I should add the Joe.

You couldn't go far wrong with that thing it's an incredible mic. I use them on snares all the time, they're awesome for guitar tones, the owner uses them for violin spot-mics on his classical sessions. The only area where I feel it's let me down a bit is on kick but no matter, you won't hear me complaining (and it would be unreasonably judgemental if I did). Yeah, it's not the cheapest mic in the locker but I would say a seriously good investment regardless. I wish I had ten of them. :) In my opinion Mr Josephson is one of the most interesting mic manufacturers out there today. I pretty much love everything he does.

I've never tried the Audix i5. Should I?

Cheers,

[poserp]

So here's one I prepared earlier. Like you I'll give the key out later, but I would be very interested to hear your / other peoples' preferences in the meantime...The drum in this case is a Ludwig Accent Combo 14x6.
Cheers,

Hits 1 and 8 had me going through a few of the Meters tracks I have on my player here at work (both are similar to the snare sound on "Dry Spell"). They're both the kinds of sounds that would work (in my mind, anyways) for funk where I like less "shell" and more "snap" and "crunch". Since that's my sort of thing, those are my favorites out of the group.

[The Nick]

I should like to add that the KM184, when taped to a '57, sounds absolutely sick for jazz. It's got that snap on rim shots that sits really nicely. I've also really dug the TLM193 on bottom, but I've only used it once so far.

[Weiss-Sound]

Hi Matt, welcome to Move The Mics. :)

Thanks for taking a listen to the snare tests we've been throwing up here.



Actually, a confession; the channel that one (the RE20) went down was a little filthy, hence the noise. There's no processing at all. But at least it shows it was a good ol' fashioned analog console, warts 'n' all. :) I guess I should add; well spotted.



You couldn't go far wrong with that thing it's an incredible mic. I use them on snares all the time, they're awesome for guitar tones, the owner uses them for violin spot-mics on his classical sessions. The only area where I feel it's let me down a bit is on kick but no matter, you won't hear me complaining (and it would be unreasonably judgemental if I did). Yeah, it's not the cheapest mic in the locker but I would say a seriously good investment regardless. I wish I had ten of them. :) In my opinion Mr Josephson is one of the most interesting mic manufacturers out there today. I pretty much love everything he does.

I've never tried the Audix i5. Should I?

Cheers,

Absolutely. It's pretty cheap, and works really well on a number of sources.