Is the talkback button obsolete?

[wyman]

This may be a bit longwinded, so apologies in advance.

For the past year or two, I have found that the single biggest enemy to getting things done in the studio is communication during the session. This problem has manifested itself most clearly to me in that vicious cycle that happens when you have someone in the studio or in the booth performing a track, and a few more people in the control room (participating in the process or not).

Despite trying to educate people in how talkback works ("we press this button in here, the person with headphones can hear us talk"), these sorts of situations inevitable degrade into someone sitting on the couch and raising their voice attempting to talk to the person on the other side of the glass. This will often happen when I am patching something, or have "both hands on the wheel" editing something. I lunge and try and activate the talkback on behalf of guy on couch, but have to drop what I'm doing.

I've even got a foot pedal wired up to the talkback function, so that I can activate it that way, and show it to artists in the control room in hopes that they use it freely.

Couple this with the fact that the talkback dims the control room speakers by 10 dB, you end up with a lot of "what did you just say?" from all parties involved. It impedes progress and is a total buzzkill.

This weekend, I ended up just wiring a mic into my PT rig, assign it only to the cue send, and used Steve Massey's excellent Talkback Plugin (http://www.smassey.com/plugin.html) so that this microphone was muted when the transport was running.

It worked great.

I'm wondering if the talkback button route is becoming obsolete: a holdover from the days when the players were on one side of the glass and the producers were on the other, and it was a "speak when spoken to" situation.

Technically, I can't see a real negative side to this, except that they might hear some bleed from my monitors in their headphones. I don't have speakers in the live room, so there's no danger of creating a feedback loop. I guess I've just always been using it because that's how I learned.

How are other folks doing it these days?

And perhaps, as a sidebar, does anybody else find that it can be a real struggle to facilitate communication during a session? People interrupting other people before an idea can be fleshed out, noodling while other folks are trying to talk, the "everybody hang in the control room and talk / text / tweet / eat / discuss the specifics of an upcoming gig / anything that doesn't pertain to what's happening in the speakers" syndrome. You wanna be positive and for the experience to be fun for everyone involved, but how do you handle it when it gets in the way of the actual task at hand without being the bad guy?

Cheers,

wyman

[seaneldon]

I have found that the single biggest enemy to getting things done in the studio is communication during the session.

I'm guessing you didn't mean this to come off in the way it's coming off over here.

Communication between captain (engineer), crew (assistant), and passengers (talent) is key for the steering of any ship. There does come a point where there's too much jabber about who needs to do what, drummers crowding the talkback mic to coach a singer, the list goes on...but this has more to do with the artist being ill-prepared than anything else.

People who have a set goal and vision will be able to get things done in a timely and efficient manner.

To me it sounds like you're blaming the wrong crook :D

[wyman]

Sean,

You're absolutely right: it should have written "the single biggest enemy to getting things done in the studio is difficulty in communication during the session." My goal is to try and get people communicating without it being a pain in the ass, certainly not implying that communication is a deterrent and should be avoided.

And I think what I'm feeling may be symptomatic of something larger (that is, an abundance of the ill-prepared artists of which you speak).

Having the talkback open whenever tape isn't running definitely makes communication between all participating folks way easier. Just trying to put feelers out to see if other folks had similar experiences.

I did a stint for a month in a completely open, no control room studio. On the plus side, it made it really easy for everyone to easily talk to one another. On the downside, it was really loud, and even with big iso headphones, I'd get burnt out pretty quickly.

[Tomasz]

Not to mention that this may now create a need for a "MUTE" button. as there are certainly times when the talent doesn't need to hear every "excited utterance". Quite possibly it's still the engineers job as the gatekeeper of comments from the peanut gallery... you know ... too many chiefs and not enough indians...

[Mixwell]

too many chiefs and not enough indians

This is why I have two buttons for facilitating talking in my studio.

One says; "Talk Back", and the other says "Don't Talk Back".

When the "Don't talk back" button is pressed, it sends 240V AC up the offending naysayers spinal cord.

[wyman]

When the "Don't talk back" button is pressed, it sends 240V AC up the offending naysayers spinal cord.

And I guess that's part of what I'm bringing up, too. Dealing with the "too many chiefs" problem diplomatically can be a problem. I find it's not as simple as strong-arming people talking out of turn (but my arms aren't that strong :cool:)

For me, it's an ongoing thing, trying to make the process of making a record as fun and as productive as possible. I'd definitely like to learn how other people handle the roadblocks in communication.

[Mixwell]

I find it's not as simple as strong-arming people talking out of turn (but my arms aren't that strong )

Use the Vulcan Neck Pinch! That usually works, and no matter how loud I play the speakers, the "mouths" don't open when the necks get squeezed!

All jokes aside, being able to communicate effectively with everyone involved, [including the peanut coalition in the back and foreground] is an "art form" in itself.

[Jeremy Krull]

haha one of my favorite studio memories of recent was when I was working at a room in Time Square with pretty much one of the biggest jackass clients I've ever seen/heard (you know when someone claims to be the biggest music supervisor in the city and miraculously has no credits to their name, you're in trouble).

Anyways, the sessions were awful because he was really taking advantage of the studio offering him extra and discounted time (especially with some issues the console was having), and he was just an insufferable sack of douche. EVERY TIME a take ended and it was coming from someone in the live room, he would just start talking regardless of if the T/B button was pushed.

We got him though :) after the first two days we gave him that remote button that turns on the T/B for the SSL (and after two days he began drinking more too), and what happened next was classic. See, he knew that that remote armed the talkback to the console, and I showed him where the remote IR thing was on the desk in case he went out of range. What he DIDN'T know, is that the remote was just a remote and there was absolutely no microphone in it and don't even think for a second we stopped to tell him. Eventually he always wanted to make sure he was within range with the remote, so we would be bending over the console holding the remote with both hands and talking into the back of the remote.

It was like a bad Star Trek episode.

[Halfway Competent]

haha one of my favorite studio memories of recent was when I was working at a room in Time Square with pretty much one of the biggest jackass clients I've ever seen/heard (you know when someone claims to be the biggest music supervisor in the city and miraculously has no credits to their name, you're in trouble).

Anyways, the sessions were awful because he was really taking advantage of the studio offering him extra and discounted time (especially with some issues the console was having), and he was just an insufferable sack of douche. EVERY TIME a take ended and it was coming from someone in the live room, he would just start talking regardless of if the T/B button was pushed.

We got him though :) after the first two days we gave him that remote button that turns on the T/B for the SSL (and after two days he began drinking more too), and what happened next was classic. See, he knew that that remote armed the talkback to the console, and I showed him where the remote IR thing was on the desk in case he went out of range. What he DIDN'T know, is that the remote was just a remote and there was absolutely no microphone in it and don't even think for a second we stopped to tell him. Eventually he always wanted to make sure he was within range with the remote, so we would be bending over the console holding the remote with both hands and talking into the back of the remote.

It was like a bad Star Trek episode.

Awesome! Haha, I laughed until I stopped!

Speaking of morons in the studio, I particularly enjoy that youtube video (dunno if it was staged or not) where there was some "pop singer" ready to sing her vocal tracks. The engineer set the mic up on the boom and went into the control room to level-check... She started talking into the counter-weight...

[wyman]

hEVERY TIME a take ended and it was coming from someone in the live room, he would just start talking regardless of if the T/B button was pushed.



This is exactly what I've been going through on an almost daily basis, and what inspired simply keeping the talkback open all the time.

[MrJoshua]

I have a footswitch on my talkback button - one click for "on," then another click for "off." At the end of the take I hit the footswitch to turn on the talkback mic and leave it on until we're ready to do another take, at which point I turn it off. Of course, if we're discussing something in the control room that doesn't need to be overheard (yeah, that DID suck, how do we tell him that and suggest something different, etc...) then I'll leave the talkback off. :) And every once in a while I have to remind anyone else in the control room that when the red light is on, anyone wearing headphones can hear anything said in the control room, even at a medium-level whisper. That's led to a couple of humorous incidents.

[albert]

not too long ago I was in the control-room and the session's hired drummer ended up in the control room when the producer sat down to mess around on his drum kit. ("tables turned"!)

he got on the talkback, cranked the talkback gain, and started making some pretty funny passive aggresive comments so that the producer on his kit in the studio could hear him, I paraphrase below

oHhh could you PlayYy thaaT a little bit louder, maybe WaRm And PunchY too? oh but I mean soft, not too loud. maybe sound more like a DrUm MacHine While You Are At iT?

That sort of thing can be good therapy for a session player!

interestingly enough, the two parties no longer work together, and had a falling out. . .

[Sultan of Swing]

I guess this is why the big studios always have a lounge. That way you can send the folks talking loudly and off topic to another room where they can play video games. Maybe you could set up a little area like that for your clients, nothing fancy but out of your way. I use the talkback mic all the time, but I recently switched to a Dangerous D-Box (love it, thanks Mercenary!) which has a latched/unlatched feature and I keep forgetting to switch it off. Recently I had a session where a piece of gear was acting up, and I let loose a string of choice words before I realized the TB was still on. Luckily the client understood the SOB was the gear and not him.

Getting back to the problem of band members or others jumping onto the talkback at the end of every take, I have learned to say gently by firmly "look, you are giving the singer too much information. Let them try it a few more times before you comment". Another thing I have learned is during mixing, request that no more than two band members are present. This cuts down on the chatter and loss of focus. I think it helps that I charge by the hour, because someone usually takes charge and says "knock it off, you're costing us money".

Don't be afraid to assert yourself a bit more.