Why...

[Zachg]

Not sure where to post this ... mods move this if there's a better spot. Thanks!

Anyhoo, Sandy (sandyrb on here), myself, and two of the other fledgeling engeneers at Pulswork were discussing this: Why do so many bands feel the need to sound like every other band in "their" genre? Is it that we feel who we are isn't good enough and we need to be someone else? I'm not really sure why. Up until the laste few years music was actually quite diverse, and genres where starting to mingle, rap and rock (linkin Park) rap and metal, techno and rock, but recently much modern popular music has stagnated. Why???

I've read that many people believe that the invention of the home studio may have brought upon some of this. IS that a reason? I would think that it would cause more young bands to all sound the same, with "signtaure plug-ins", it wouldn't have as much of an effect on pro records. Weird...

I'd be really curious to hear all of your opinions, especially of our resident industry pros.

Post away, should be a bloodbath tm. Slipperman 2007

Zach

[Sandyrb]

Why do so many bands feel the need to sound like every other band in "their" genre?

Hey Zach.

I'm surprised no-one responded to this yet. My answer - which I may or may not have expressed at the studio (short-term memory's always the first thing to go) - is this: Who wouldn't want to identify or be identified with their heroes? Goodness knows I would love to emulate the amazing records that some of my heroes (venerable recording experts, of course) made. Trouble is that all the musical "heroes" sound the same today. Why? Because record labels only sell what's already selling because it's such a safe bet.

And that's why I love working with indie bands, but I digress...

I think in the case of the myriad Nickelback clones, that ship has pretty much sailed. Now everyone wants to sound like bloody Protest The Hero with their egregiously over-edited guitars. And 743,653,712 other modern bands who all sound the darn same (can you tell I'm an old fart?) :p

Anyway, yes, it would be interesting to hear other peoples' take on this.

Cheers,

[pauly]

Who wouldn't want to identify or be identified with their heroes? Goodness knows I would love to emulate the amazing records that some of my heroes (venerable recording experts, of course) made.

i think that it is very common for a young person or even an older person to kind of benchmark themselves with a player or group. even to the point that they try to emulate their stage performance. the lucky ones may realize they want to develop into their own identity and the ones who are determined enough can.

i wouldn't say all bands sound the same, there is allot of talent today, i find it all the time, bands who are really pushing themselves including recording. i think home studio's are a good thing for music and is good for the bands who are really taking an artistic risk. its also allows them to prepare to record for real in many cases(hopefully with me). the home studio had to happen because the major label corporate machine decided to stop making legends, they stopped artist development so they stopped selling albums. if the majors wanted to sell records all they would need to do is build legends again. people always made mix tapes with their friends, but when you are a legend the fan wants to own all your albums and the artwork, posters, t-shirts, and anything else they decide to merchandise. this "here today gone tomorrow" thing, why buy it when the new red is only a week away... i honestly can say i see big things coming for new creative music, its just the artist community is in a learning curve now. independent bands managing, producing, marketing and promoting. thats why the feds are today talking about regulating the internet, they want their cut.

the pop albums you speak of all sound the same because like you said they all use the same shit, the same producers in the same studio's and they all mix in protools(that most definitly has a sound) or in the lucky few an ssl desk. the same shit sells over and over its just a pretty new face in a new package. half of this crap was spawned on american idol, more people vote on that show than vote for a presidential election.

the only thing i can say is keep listening, go to shows buy music from independent bands, who knows they might be saving their pennies to go to a "real" recording studio.

[Jeremy Krull]

Man if I had a dime for every time I got a "we really want that Dandy Sheap sound" or a "I want the drums to sound like (insert Roadrunnerized metal act)", I'd own at least one of everything that Mercenary sells. Realistically I think that's a combination of slightly naive expectations from bands listening to who they look up to more than anything else. And also, they're paying me, so it's not like I can be like "you don't want that sound" although the times that I have done that it's been with bands I've worked with for years.

It's hardly relegated to metal, and hardly relegated to the artists wanting something like this. I had to suffer through a "producer" who also fancied himself a mix afficianado constantly asking me (and literally not listening to a word I said) "HAVE YOU HEARD SERBAN? HE'S THE BEST" or constantly telling me to make EQ and compressor moves based on settings he copied off of Tom Lord-Alge's gear (completely regardless of hearing the actual source material for the mix first).

It comes down to two things for me. One half is the naive and uninformed expectation of sounding like the 'mainstream' or 'big' stuff. That to me is slightly forgivable because there's no malicious intent feeding that per se. The other half though is the directionless hanger-ons who think this truly is the formula to hits, and have no shame in blindly opting to copy/emulate someone elses work.

I haven't been up this early in at least 6 months so forgive the ramble.

-Jeremy

[Ken Morgan]

(WARNING - Speculation ahead: Proceed with Caution! May Be Littered With Nonsense)


I don't know, but I think there are a couple of answers that MAY apply

1) It is a fairly common trend for others to try and capitalize on the efforts of originators...How many people jump on any bandwagon, be it coffee, clothing styles, or mixing techniques, just to abandon them just as quickly for the next fashionable trend?

2) There is a radically reduced risk when mimicking others. Seems that everyone loves an eccentric, everyone avoids a rogue, and the only difference seems to be success. Being unique, just like everyone else, seems to be in demand (look at our profession - without the right look on stage, an act will be an overnight failure, regardless of how good they sound)

3) Innovation (from my very limited viewpoint) seems to be restricted to plugins instead of people actually getting out of their chairs and doing things. To a large degree (again my opinion) one reason why people insist on sounding just like X,Y, or Z is because more and more, we all have become lazy.

4) Phil Collins dared to put reverb on kick drums; the Doobies dared to flange a part of an entire mix, etc...what's left to do, really? It may be out there, but who is willing to try it?

Again - my musings may be nothing more than pure BS...you decide.

[Sandyrb]

Man if I had a dime for every time I got a "we really want that Dandy Sheap sound" or a "I want the drums to sound like (insert Roadrunnerized metal act)"

So true! I get bands coming to me and they're like "will you produce our album?" so I say, well, what kind of music do you play? Then comes the list; Simple Plan, Good Charlotte, Default, Headley, Nickelback, Theory Of A Down, System Of A Dead Man (:p)... I could go on or simply say "insert popular rock act of choice here".

So I'm like, no, I'm not going to do it. Unless they're actually doing something interesting and a bit original then I don't have any enthusiasm for it. Yes, I've turned down a potentially profitable production gig for myself but THANK GOD I've not turned out some cookie-cutter over-compressed radio rock sh*t that sounds like everything else. Plus it provides work for the other guys at the studio and there's no harm in that.

Pauly's right; there is a lot of talent out there for sure and I'm very blessed to have worked with some incredible talent over the years. Unfortunately though we play to an audience - a woefully uneducated and passive audience - who expect to be spoon-fed, accept the sh*t as normal and think that the real talent is eclectic, off the wall or just plain weird. I mean, seriously, how many fantastic records which knock your socks off have any of us heard in the charts recently? Let me count twice, just to be sure.... zero! But we've heard a LOT of autotune, amp farm, beat detective, vocalign and sound replacer, haven't we? And whatever happened to songwriting? Don't get me started...

But personally speaking I'm VERY glad I get to work with real talent. Having some years back made a deliberate choice not to go down the industry/commercial route I've recorded some of the best musicians in this part of the world and I love it. Without good musicianship stepping up to the mic sometimes we'd all get fed up with it.

If they want to sound like anything other than themselves, they can record with someone else. I make, not fake, records. :)

Cheers,

[pauly]

So I'm like, no, I'm not going to do it. Unless they're actually doing something interesting and a bit original then I don't have any enthusiasm for it.

i feel the same way, if a group is not doing something i believe in, what chance do i have for success. i think that keeping that inline with the projects i love, short term is making things difficult on my wallet, but i don't want to build a reputation on working with wannabe's.

[Luckystrike0007]

You guys are right on.

I think that those that run the pop culture show churn out what works. Its just like any other corporation. However, there is great art out there. Its just not in the open and in the commercial spotlight, nor is it widely distributed. So what we see is largely the same stuff. Art has been thrown onto a trending chart for bean counters to decifer and the public, as a whole group, kinda lost its soul.

But, things are cyclical and eventually we'll get tired of it. One thing that is interesting to look at is mass communication, 24 hour media and the like. I don't watch much television and it always amazes me at some of the stuff that makes it on the air. You're like "There is nobody that wants to watch that sh*t." But they do! I think recorded music is much the same way. Companies are making money decisions and not cultural ones. And when people go home and flip on the tv, follow pop culture websites, or listen to the radio, guess who is driving that bus?:rolleyes:

[Luckystrike0007]

You guys are right on.

I think that those that run the pop culture show churn out what works. Its just like any other corporation. However, there is great art out there. Its just not in the open and in the commercial spotlight, nor is it widely distributed. So what we see is largely the same stuff. Art has been thrown onto a trending chart for bean counters to decifer and the public, as a whole group, kinda lost its soul.

But, things are cyclical and eventually we'll get tired of it. One thing that is interesting to look at is mass communication, 24 hour media and the like. I don't watch much television and it always amazes me at some of the stuff that makes it on the air. You're like "There is nobody that wants to watch that sh*t." But they do! I think recorded music is much the same way. Companies are making money decisions and not cultural ones. And when people go home and flip on the tv, follow pop culture websites, or listen to the radio, guess who is driving that bus?:rolleyes:

[Sandyrb]

WARNING - Speculation ahead: Proceed with Caution! May Be Littered With Nonsense
Ken I think you're right on! Actual nonsense content = zero. :)
How many people jump on any bandwagon?
It's true! But in recent years I've started to live by the axiom that it's only dead fish who go with the flow. So far, it seems to be working...
Innovation (from my very limited viewpoint) seems to be restricted to plugins instead of people actually getting out of their chairs and doing things.
AMEN BROTHER KEN!! PREACH ALL NIGHT! :D And here's a point... all the little self-abusing idiots who think that if they have XYZ plugin then they're going to sound like a hit record or something. I keep trying to tell them that it's not computers / software / algorithms that make music, it's PEOPLE!
what's left to do, really? It may be out there, but who is willing to try it?
Perhaps this is a good idea for the board moderators to start a "wild recording or production ideas" forum or thread or something where people can expostulate, share, try and comment on stuff which is a bit unusual. Most of us at some time, I would have thought, have tried something crazy which totally worked. Why don't we share some stuff like that? I'd be very willing to experiment with some weird and whacky recording methodologies. Why not? I guarantee in this business we'll always be learning.

Starting bet: When I record drums, I sometimes stick a Josephson C617 in the walk-in cupboard in the live room to get that "down the hall" sound. Am I mad? :)

Cheers,

[Dan]

Perhaps this is a good idea for the board moderators to start a "wild recording or production ideas" forum or thread or something where people can expostulate, share, try and comment on stuff which is a bit unusual.

We won't do a new forum for it, but if someone wants to start a new thread, have at it.

-Dan.

[Sandyrb]

We won't do a new forum for it, but if someone wants to start a new thread, have at it.

Yeah forum, thread... I dunno; all the same to me. When it comes to computers I haven't got a clue most of the time. :eek: :cool: :p

If I can figure out how to start a new thread I'll do it. Beware though; In my ineptitude I might blow up the whole internet. ;)

Cheers,

[Mixwell]

Starting bet: When I record drums, I sometimes stick a Josephson C617 in the walk-in cupboard in the live room to get that "down the hall" sound. Am I mad?

No Sandy, you are awesome!

Is that called the lion, the witch, and the wardrobe tone?

[Mixwell]

If I can figure out how to start a new thread I'll do it. Beware though; In my ineptitude I might blow up the whole internet. ;)

Cheers,

Sandy, if you can blow up the internet I would be forever grateful!

[Zachg]

[QUOTE=Sandyrb;913]Hey Zach.
(can you tell I'm an old fart?) :p
QUOTE]

Sandy let me point out, you've been teaching me stuff on a computer...



It's good to see everyone's thougts on this. Another point I've heard was that the invention of the "home studio" was another nail in the coffin of non copy+paste+BD (ie most) music. I think it was in an Eddie Kramer interview that I saw that.

Oh, and Sandy by XYZ plugin you do mean CLA right???

Thanks for the answers and laughs,
Zach

[Sandyrb]

No Sandy, you are awesome!
Well thank you VERY kindly! I don't think anyone's ever called me "awesome" before. There's a beer in the post. :)
Is that called the lion, the witch, and the wardrobe tone?
An excellent suggestion sir but I'll take your idea and raise you ten: How about "The mic witches lion in the wardrobe"? ;)

Cheers,

[Mixwell]

There's a beer in the post. :)

Clink!

http://ninh.nl/blog/wp-content/uploads/2008/07/guinnessbeer.jpg


How about "The mic witches lion in the wardrobe"? ;)

Nah, how bout "closet perspective"?

That sounds cooler.

[Sandyrb]

Sandy let me point out, you've been teaching me stuff on a computer...
THAT WAS A COMPUTER?!?! Holy crap. I did NOT see that coming. No, seriously, they're everywhere now. In the bar, at the mall, lurking outside the gates of the school in a dirty raincoat... I saw one on the bus the other day. Tried to avoid eye-contact, like. It was going downtown but I got off near Rotten Ronnie's and bought a delicious cheeseburger. Darn computers....
Oh, and Sandy by XYZ plugin you do mean CLA right???
Awww man what's this CLA? Do you mean to tell me that if I buy this CLA plugin I can sound like Bob Clearmountain? Because it has all his presets, right? It even wears the same size shoes as him? I MUST HAVE IT!! :eek: :eek: :eek:

Cheers,

[Sandyrb]

Clink!
Holy cow man that's a big beer. Thank you.
Prefer Innis & Gunn meself though. ;)
Nah, how bout "closet perspective"? That sounds cooler.
Alright... how about "my mic's so far in the closet that it's digging up Christmas presents?" :p

Cheers,