Micing with underheads...

[Nikolai.Gabriel]

Hey,
this is my first post, and i like to discuss micing drums with underheads. I got the idea to try it for myself from the methlab video where Sean shows of the IBP's (Methlab video (http://www.methodsandapplicationslaboratory.com/html/videos.html)) or was it this picture here (http://www.mercenary.com/silkinstereo.html), can't remember. I tried it with some old c414, but damn, can't say i could get something useful. Hole in the stereo image with equal distance to snare, tried moving, but then the kick, and snare where off center. Rack toms, cymbals to high, floor tom to low.

What's your experience with this technique? What's the thought behind this technique?

[seaneldon]

Spacing them out as in the video makes the center tougher to nail (note that I say my center is screwy in the video), and kick/snare reinforcement must dominate those two sounds over the stereo underheads. The wider placement makes tom mic'ing unnecessary, in my opinion, and you can focus more on the wider elements of the kit with the underheads and have the direct kick/snare mics fill in that hole you speak of.

Are you listening to the drums in context with the music? What sounds lop-sided in solo could be easily cured by pushing up another element on the dominant side.

Try a HPF on the underheads to calm down the kick in relation to the direct mic, be careful not to go too high on the corner frequency and lose your meat in the toms.

Printing the ride-side mic (which tends to be more kick heavy) down a dB or so can balance it out as well, but moving the mic back a bit does the same thing better.

Mono drums are never a bad thing. If the player has good balance there is really no "punchier" way to capture the drums. Try it with one mic dead in the middle, about a 8-12" up from the kick...get stereo image with room tracks if you can/need to.

[Nikolai.Gabriel]

Thanks for the reply:) I'll try it as soon as i get the time. I love mono drums, it's just to bad non of the bands, or the producers want it:( And it do demand much of the room, player and kit, and i guess mic and pre too;) But i'll be sure to convince them with the additional stereo room mics! Oh, and by 8-12, you mean feet, not inches, right?

Thanks again

[Benny Grotto]

Never worked for me, personally. It just doesn't provide what I'm looking for in a drum sound. The cymbals often sound too gong-y and the top end air is difficult to push without adding a lot of harshness. There's also not as much stick articulation as I'd like, particularly on the ride cymbal.

The few times I've tried it, I'd end up trying to pull the low mids out of the cymbals to make them sound more natural, which ends up neutering the shells' sound. It's just something that's never worked for me.

Maybe in a different room, or with a different floor or ceiling? I dunno. Just not my thing, personally. Though I'd never write it off by any means.

Sean - have you used the technique in rooms other than the Meth Lab? Perhaps the large warehouse-like dimensions facilitate a more usable underheads sound? The drum sounds in that video are worlds better than I've ever gotten using the underheads technique!

[seaneldon]

Nikolai, I meant 8-12 inches higher than the top of the rim of the kick drum. Distance would be about the same as in the underhead video...couple-three-four feet.

Benny, my guess is that you're just not used to working into this sound because you've probably put mics above the kit your whole career. It's something to get used to, it's like taking your current drum sound and rotating it 90 degrees.

I started doing this at a mentor's suggestion in smaller rooms, rooms where the ceiling height is shorter than the room is long. It sounded infinitely better than putting mics above the kit when I was working with less than 10 foot ceilings. The floor in that studio was a softer wood than the Meth Lab's floor.

What the video fails to show (because it didn't get filmed) is how the mics were positioned. Adam or Jay played the drums as I walked around the kit with one ear plugged. I pointed the unplugged ear at the drums and swept my head around either side of the kit until I got, to my ears, the best "mono, done" drum sound. When I got there, I unplugged the other ear to check. If it still didn't sound right, I'd try again. When I got there, I had Reese hand me the mic on a stand and I'd set it exactly where my head was.

I dunno, people hear things differently, and I'm endlessly happy about that. If people heard what I hear from my work I would never get hired.

[Benny Grotto]

I dunno, people hear things differently, and I'm endlessly happy about that. If people heard what I hear from my work I would never get hired.

Ha! Love this quote, couldn't agree more.

Anyway, your points are well-taken. Next time I'm in a smaller room, I'll give a shot. Hell, maybe I'll throw a kit up in one of Mad Oak's smaller rooms to hear what it sounds like. I'd be much happier being able to get it to work for me than not. Thanks for the reply.