dynAMIC vocals?

[Pier]

Hey guys/gals/hermaphrodites/aliens,

I've occasionally had to record vocalists, usually female but I have had one or two guys too, who's voice just blasts out like a bazooka only with insane focus. I've seen this in singers with really poor technique (aka throat-belters) who are simply young and haven't figured out that they'll have no voice in 5 years and in better trained singers too who simply project like crazy.

The obvious solutions are to work with the singer on mic technique and pads on the mic, etc, but the problem is, that doesn't end up sounding that great because you lose intimacy and fullness. I've heard this (as a sound quality issue) on otherwise great records by experienced engineers. I've also heard a few who can pull it off though.

Anyone want to share some techniques on capturing a loud vocal while maintaining a full sound, not losing intimacy in the sound? Let's assume you've found a mic that sounds good on the voice in other respects and we're just dealing with the issue of dynamics.

I've tried breaking up the song and recording in sections but that does break up the vibe of the performance. There's gain riding but.....

I'm thinking of say.....counting crows, nirvana, all that insanely dynamic stuff from the 90s. I know Gil Norton was using a U47 on Duritz on their 2nd album and it seemed to work well.

Just like to hear how some others have handled this.

Thanks!

[Pier]

LOL.....ok. I've been experimenting with recording vocals in M/S. Not sure if it will address this problem specifically but it sure sounds good.

Hey, I tried :rolleyes:

[Halfway Competent]

Hey guys/gals/hermaphrodites/aliens,

I've occasionally had to record vocalists, usually female but I have had one or two guys too, who's voice just blasts out like a bazooka only with insane focus. I've seen this in singers with really poor technique (aka throat-belters) who are simply young and haven't figured out that they'll have no voice in 5 years and in better trained singers too who simply project like crazy.

The obvious solutions are to work with the singer on mic technique and pads on the mic, etc, but the problem is, that doesn't end up sounding that great because you lose intimacy and fullness. I've heard this (as a sound quality issue) on otherwise great records by experienced engineers. I've also heard a few who can pull it off though.

Anyone want to share some techniques on capturing a loud vocal while maintaining a full sound, not losing intimacy in the sound? Let's assume you've found a mic that sounds good on the voice in other respects and we're just dealing with the issue of dynamics.

I've tried breaking up the song and recording in sections but that does break up the vibe of the performance. There's gain riding but.....

I'm thinking of say.....counting crows, nirvana, all that insanely dynamic stuff from the 90s. I know Gil Norton was using a U47 on Duritz on their 2nd album and it seemed to work well.

Just like to hear how some others have handled this.

Thanks!

What if you put up two mics? Put one close to the singer to capture the nuanced verse, and the other farther away to capture the belted chorus... Both set to appropriate gain settings. Then, pick the right track and mute the other for that part of the song. I dunno, could work?

[albert]

LOL.....ok. I've been experimenting with recording vocals in M/S. Not sure if it will address this problem specifically but it sure sounds good.

Hey, I tried :rolleyes:

Haha, I've tried it before as well, never got a useable side signal though because I believe the singer will always to be close for that.



In other news, regarding the vocalist with the large dynamic range, if you're compressing as part of your vocal chain to tape, I always adjust the threshold depending on the part, or if no compression on the way in (which I prefer personally), you can ride the fader for signal to tape between parts, or just set everything up to record the choruses, and then setup differently to do the verses, etc

Just ideas, it all depends.

[Pier]

Thanks guys.

I've actually tried the close mic/far mic thing with 2 U87s both hitting 1073s with a good singer. It doesn't work. I mean, it kinda works but the sound of the far mic isn't that great and you get reflections from the close mic, etc. Also you need to do a really close gobo and deaden the hell out of the environment otherwise the far mic is way too roomy.

I like the riding the threshold thing although like you (Albert) I don't like compressing on the way in.

I'm wondering if this might be a good application of variable impedance. In general the higher the impedance the better it sounds to me, but in this case if you move the singer back just beyond any proximity effect, deaden the hell out of space and ride the threshold on a comp, using an impedance of say 1300ohm on a mic that might normally take 2400. In standard applications I find lower impedances are compressed and lack dimension. But in this case it might be perfect for making up for the distance from the mic and dynamics of the performance. Gotta make sure you've killed all early reflections though. No glass and bust out the extra thick felt for the music stand. Might be nice to give it a little bump on the low end with a pultec or something warm to give it all a little of that proximity warmth - post compression.

I have to carve out some time for playing around wit it.

Thanks again!

[level devil]

Dynamic microphones works great on loud stuff. Guess I'm talking about "worse" things (growl n stuff) but it could still be worth a try for you.

MD421 and SM7b are favourites. I know, it feels strange when you have all these fancy condensers. But it's the result that count right?

[Pier]

No no, I've been thinking along the same lines. I've actually been thinking I'm gonna pick up an SM7b next. Starting to see it everywhere.

[Benny Grotto]

Yeah, SM7b is pretty fool-proof, though you'll definitely be sacrificing some nuance and detail compared to a really great tube LDC, so there is a trade-off. I'd also suggest riding a fader into a compressor, to keep the compressor working as little as possible. You can even ride the output of your mic amp (if your mic amp has one), but that's about a million times less intuitive.

Or, forgo the compressor completely and just get your fader rides on-point. For a lotta really nuanced-and/or-hi-fi stuff, losing the extra signal path and doing fader rides-only can be the bees' knees.

The other thing is, I kinda like a little hair on my vocals, so I tend to look for mics that break up in a cool way; a lot of times that hair adds a great sense of emotionally immediacy. Of course, that depends entirely on style. But man, those old Al Green records where he reaches for that high note and the whole signal chain goes "Oof!"...beautiful stuff.:D Anyway, sometimes going for a "controlled distortion" approach to vocals is where it's at. You just gotta find the right mic and mic amp that break up the way you want them to. U47 is tough to beat for this. I also like (oddly enough) pairing that with an old 312. That's a combo that really works well for me. Maybe some kind of transparent opto or (ideally) vari-mu compression to catch what my fader rides miss, and I'm good!

Hope that helps:)

[ShaneOConnor]

grotto is dead on with the SM7B.

for opto comp, i often pair it off with a manley ELOP. I can hit this thing really hard on vocals and it doesnt get whacky.