View Full Version : AES Post Mortem - What'd you think?
See anything cool? Meet anybody interesting? Any surprises? Any disappointments?
-Dan.
Yamaha had a truck w/ a bunch of digital live boards set up, where I got to check out the LS-9. My impression after <2 minutes, not reading the manual, and not asking anyone for help was that certain elements of the interface were fairly intuitive, whereas others weren't. For example, adjusting the parameters of the channel eq & dynamics was easy, but I couldn't find the engage/bypass button for those inserts, nor could I figure out how to group/ungroup channels.
Jonathan Little's got some magical EQ-ish box called the VOG that does really amazing things to a kick drum.
Contrary to my wife's claims, the free mobile hearing test showed that while I've got a bit of a dip at 8-10kHz in my left ear, my hearing in both ears is within the normal/healthy range.
The one panel I attended on 3-D spatialization techniques in games was interesting. The speaker gave a brief history of techniques & tools that have been used in the past (which have been very rudimentary even up until a couple years ago), and showed examples of how sound designers are better able to control sounds and their properties as the emitter's distance, movement, and environment changes. He also talked about how audio simulation (particularly as it relates to interaction with the environment) faces some of the same performance issues that graphics guys have already overcome and how their solutions can be applied to audio.
-Dan.
Perelandra05
12 Oct 2009, 18:16
I work with all of the Yamaha line of digital mixers everyday. The LS9 has no DCA's. Everything gets routed to any of the 16 Omni's. You could create a Group by routing out to a Stereo Omni and then swing those back in on two Channels, but that would require a DA/AD conversion. It's super flexible in other regards but no where near as flexible as a PM5D or M7CL.
I work with all of the Yamaha line of digital mixers everyday. The LS9 has no DCA's. Everything gets routed to any of the 16 Omni's. You could create a Group by routing out to a Stereo Omni and then swing those back in on two Channels, but that would require a DA/AD conversion. It's super flexible in other regards but no where near as flexible as a PM5D or M7CL.
By "group," I meant that channels were paired/linked together. There were a couple pairs already grouped when I got there that I wanted to disable.
-Dan.
Jeremy Krull
13 Oct 2009, 00:26
It was definitely an extremely light show as far as attendance and size...but I think there were definitely a few cool products.
-The new JCF D/A (or as Adam calls it, a D to B) is a thing of beauty. Even auditioning it back and forth with the Radar's converters on the loud noisy show floor, you can tell there's something really special there.
-Jonathan Little has done it yet AGAIN with the new VOG as you guys previously mentioned. Nothing complicated here, just a quick and extremely fun path to adding some more "awesome" to your kick drum, bass, or fart tracks. Definitely another extremely compelling reason to jump into the 500 series format.
-not that I got to use it at the show, but Manley had this new microphone/preamp matrix sort of system with them? Seems like that could be a potentially cool tool to have, unless it costs 4 grand.
-new compact active 3-way monitor system from ATC at the show, as well as offsite demos of upstart company G-S (http://www.guzauski-swist.com/)'s new larger format monitor system. Both were excellent, and it was a pleasure to meet Billy Woodman at the ATC booth and get his insight on the new design as well.
It was a great show as far as seeing old friends, and meeting new people. Got to meet a lot of people whose names I'd only seen in print, or whose designs and products I really admire. Even in a pretty much crumbling industry, I'm further convinced I want to be here.
plenty more stuff at the show that people will talk about, both product and panel-wise I'm sure...just a few highlights for me.
-Jeremy
AndrewHutchinson
13 Oct 2009, 02:58
2nd the JCF D/A box. Even on the noisy floor, I could hear and feel the drums trying to knock me over after traveling through all those delicious tubes. It was great to hang out at the Mercenary booth. Other than that, being there on Sunday was nice, because there weren't that many people there, so I could really spend time talking to people and doing serious demos of the gear. I sat down at the API 1608 for a while. I must have lost track of time because when I finally looked up, there were about 6 people waiting behind me. I got a copy of Bruce Swedien's "Make Mine Music," signed by the man himself. I got to shake his hand which was a real honor. I also got to shake Rupert Neve's hand while we were both on the floor. I wouldn't have, but two other guys accosted him, so I figured I'd join in. Meeting two of our most revered and accomplished, dare I say peers, was the highlight for me. All in all, a great show.
i thought that analogue tube's version of a fairchild was pretty hip. point to point, they even worked with jj tube to recreate the 6386 tube. now never hearing a real fairchild i cant honestly compare. but what i heard sounded amazing, 6-8db of compression and everything was still there, huge, its also way to rich for me 19k..
i did think from the internal pictures that it needed to be wired a little cleaner, kind of a rats nest.
Hi Dan,
I've been mixing on an LS9 since January. It's really made to be controlled by a laptop. Yamaha has free control software that you can download. Anytime I've had to ungroup channels w/o the software it basically doesn't work, even though it's supposed to. What you can do in a pinch is simply turn off all grouping, which....if you really need to break up a group on the spot, works. It's easy as pie with the software.
The sound company that installed the board has all their guys running around with tablet PC notebooks and the LS9 connected via WIFI. It's pretty cool to see. You can run around the room tweaking EQs and whatnot.
You can create a real group without an A/D/A but it's a bitch. Basically you have to assign two adjacent aux sends to be a stereo "group" - one automatically becomes panning and one level. Then send that to a "rack" effect - which even though it's internal, the LS9 views as an external insert (for some reason). Then you can bring the output of that rack effect back into a stereo input channel. This is the ONLY way to get true stereo compression. What I did was assign the classic Yamaha Symphonic effect to a rack and put it at about 9% wet. Then put a stereo comp on the stereo input channel and used the whole chain as a vocal group. Sounds feakin' great. I would take the background vocals out of the normal stereo mix and only have them in this group and then the lead vocal I would split about 50/50 between the main bus and this group. Bands LOVE it. The vocals come out super tight, in tune and huge.
I hated this board the whole time I was learning it, and I'm still not a big fan. Tons of paging and layers and crap you don't want to deal with in a live situation. But if you're on the same board day in and day out you can customize it and the damn thing doesn't sound too bad. It's still a beast to get around though.
I dropped by the Yamaha truck at AES. The Nuendo display was 10x bigger than at the Steinberg booth
Oh yeah, it was cool to shake Dan Kennedy's hand and thank him for making my favorite pre.
I hated this board the whole time I was learning it, and I'm still not a big fan. Tons of paging and layers and crap you don't want to deal with in a live situation. But if you're on the same board day in and day out you can customize it and the damn thing doesn't sound too bad. It's still a beast to get around though.
Hmm... That's interesting. A lot of the reviews I've read say that it's really easy & simple. I consider myself a reasonably smart guy, so I'm sure I could learn my way around it, but I was trying to see this from the perspective of a potentially inexperienced HOW volunteer and things did seem a bit less intuitive and more cumbersome than they oughta be. That's unfortunate, since the LS9 and the Presonus StudioLive are the only digital options under $10K (more like $15-18K).
I guess the lesson is: don't trust stuff you read on the internet. :moon:
Oh yeah, it was cool to shake Dan Kennedy's hand and thank him for making my favorite pre.
Yeah, Dan's a super cool dude.
-Dan.
It's not so much that it's not intuitive. For the most part you can find everything. It's just sloooooow. Like all digital boards really. I know the thing like the back of my hand now and it's still pretty slow. I also still constantly get burned by bumping a fader while I'm doing something like EQing and then finding that I'm EQing the wrong channel. You can turn off the touch sensitivity and a lot of guys do, but I find I need that for speed too as opposed to always having to reach for select buttons. No way around it, digital is slow. The lack of group busing really is a drag too.
The Studio Live doesn't look up to speed as far as I can see. They just added a graphic on the stereo bus with the latest upgrade. I think the LS9 is really the only choice in this price range unless there's something I just haven't heard of yet. Hey, at least it sounds pretty good.
One piece of advice, definitely spring for the LS9-32. I've been working on a 16 and I have to flip pages to get to my F/X returns channels. Drives me nuts. I could put them on stereo inputs but then there's no fader....etc.
RE: volunteers - if you know nothing about mixing and just want to call up a scene and maybe bump a fader or two around then this is cool. If you're coming from a lot of experience with analog boards, this thing sucks for a while cause you have to change your whole workflow and expectations of yourself regarding how fast you are. I seriously wanted to throw it out the window on more than one occasion. I actually begged the venue to get an analog board.
Oh, also "sounds pretty good" is not quite right. Rather, it doesn't specifically sound bad. For $10k tho you could easily get an analog board that would sound a whole lot better. Just you'd also have to include rack gear in that budget.
Ryan Kelly
15 Oct 2009, 17:28
It felt very small this year :S
That being sad, loved the Clarity Control and the KMF mics were awesome. Other than that their didn't seem to be any major things that I fell in love with, the Euphonix Fusion's awful pretty though I do refer the knobs on the System 5 a bit more still.
Lots of pretty gear though! Was nice to see the usual faces as always
mirthcontrol
18 Oct 2009, 11:20
I had lots of fun, though I didn't get to walk around the show that much. My biggest thrill was playing with the little baby Nagra handheld recorder, which has almost no handling noise and a total idiot proof interface (1 switch to make it start recording, but you have to hold down a button for a long time to make it stop recording). I expected a bunch of manufacturers to be there who weren't, which was kind of sad because I was looking forward to touching base with some folks.
Otherwise, AES is more about people for me than it is about gear and I got to meet a bunch of hard working, knowledgeable professionals from a variety of audio jobs. I especially like talking to the post people because they have this general sense of being blamed for everything that's not their fault, and they're at the end of the chain as far as a production is concerned... but most of them are totally chill folks.
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This may be kind of OT, but as I was striking our booth, a union dude walked by with a bunch of saran wrap around his foot, kind of tripping on it. I put my foot on it so he could free himself and cut open a pallet that had just arrived. A minute later, the guy walked back toward me with a smile on his face, came right up to me and said, "You're a white nigger."
It was kind of a treat because I had been in New York for 5 days without anyone being personally crazy towards me, and I hate missing out on fully experiencing that city.
Mixwell
18 Oct 2009, 15:26
"You're a white....."
Saran Warp Commando is a better term.
CaptainHook
21 Oct 2009, 03:13
It's not so much that it's not intuitive. For the most part you can find everything. It's just sloooooow. Like all digital boards really.
..No way around it, digital is slow.
The Vi6 is about the only digital desk i'm okay with using at a live show. It's
not actually 'slow' at all.
AudioDog
22 Oct 2009, 17:17
I had a great time at the AES the last 2 days when you could actually see the products and talk to people. The highlights for me was The Dramastic Obsidian 500-series, the Sequoia software, Vertigos 'The Mix Satellite', Quested monitors, Studiosuite 9 software, Little Labs VOG, And first and foremost all the fantastic people I got to me and to you who reads this if I met you, you are one of them.
AndrewHutchinson
23 Oct 2009, 01:50
+1 the Little Labs VOG. I, as I suppose many had, the opportunity of having Jonathan Little himself demonstrate the VOG to me. In keeping with the rest of their kit, it is a unique spin on a standard, useful tool for the studio. He's not the first to build a resonance filter, but he's the first to control it the way he has. Great kit, and I'd love to get one soon. Also, I'm still giddy about meeting Bruce Swedien and Rupert Neve.
The Vi6 is about the only digital desk i'm okay with using at a live show. It's
not actually 'slow' at all.
Cool! I haven't been on it yet. Thanks!
The Vi6 is about the only digital desk i'm okay with using at a live show. It's
not actually 'slow' at all.
I actually got a demo of this board last night and it was very streamline.
AudioDog
04 Nov 2009, 14:20
I forgot the Airfield audio Liminator, which was cool.
Mixwell
15 Dec 2009, 00:01
I actually got a demo of this board last night and it was very streamline.
You have one post.
And its about a Digital Desk.
You have one post.
And its about a Digital Desk.
Epic überfail.
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