Gear Demo Guidelines

[Sultan of Swing]

This is my first thread, so hopefully I have come up with a useful topic. I would like to discuss some guidelines for demoing gear. Often, when people on forums ask "should I buy compressor x or y" they get a response of "try 'em both and pick the one you like". That's fine, but what is reasonable to ask of a gear seller?

1. How long is a fair amount of time for a test drive? Let's assume we include a few days shipping things out and back.

2. How many items can go out at a time? Say I want to compare a few 500 series mic pre's. Can I get 3 or 4 at once?

3. What's fair for collateral? Is my credit card info enough, or do I need to buy each item and return what I don't want?

4. Some gear is sold directly by manufacturers, like Ana-Mod, for example. Is it reasonable to ask for a demo unit, assuming you can show you are a valid customer?

I would like to get input from both buyers and sellers on this. Of course, I understand that each retailer will have their own policy regarding demos, but some give and take on the subject may help us understand each other better. Also, I understand that demo-ing gear is not a substitute for rental, and I should never ask to try out things I could never pay for. In my case, I usually buy about $5 to $10k of stuff a year, so it seems fair to ask to demo the SSL X-Desk, but it would be crazy for me to demo the API 1608.

Thoughts anyone?

[Sultan of Swing]

I just wanted to add that I read Sean's intro thread "Could somebody Please..." and I get that we are not here to fight over which preamp is better. It's just that this is the time of year when I do some buying, and I got to wondering about what's fair when you want to demo some gear. I have often taken things out for a test drive from local musical instrument and pro audio stores, but these days the stuff I am interested in is at places like Mercenary, which is 1200 miles from me. So there it is. Anyone?

[Dan]

It varies from dealer to dealer and even within that, policies may be a bit fluid, depending on what kind of relationship you've established with them. Regarding both collateral and the quantity/value of the things being demoed, a returning customer with an established rapport and an extensive buying history is going to get more leeway/consideration than somebody whose only purchase was an RNC 5 years ago. Who would you trust more - someone you've never met or someone who's bought $30K worth of stuff from you in the last 6 months?

IMO, a couple weeks is a reasonable amount of time to take to check out gear. Beyond 30 days is pushing it.

When demoing gear, the best thing to do is be honest with your sales guy that you're not sure if you'll keep it. Some items are hard to get and others don't sell very often, so it's not in anybody's interest for the dealer to go to certain lengths to get you a new unit only to have you return it, where it'll sit on their shelf for 3 months. Let them know that you're still undecided and they may be able to find you a demo (i.e. scratch-n-dent) unit that's already available.

-Dan.

[Ken Morgan]

I think it depends on the customer as well...as customers, it really does make sense to seek out a person in a store that we deal with and try to nurture a relationship of some sort (even its only because its the human thing to do)

I like to think that I am more than a credit card number to the people I buy from, and I hope the people/brands I buy from realize they are more than just the lowest price/in stock store at the time....

Hopefully this is not derail the OP too badly, but it seems there is a direct connection between demo policies and customer/store relationships.

[Zachg]

It helps I think If you've bought from that store before or know somebody there. Then they have a bit more trust in you than if you're a guy they've never dealt with before. So if your going to be getting more stuff in the future, try to stick with one store. for my home studio (read small and cheap) I got most of it from L&M.

I hope the rest of the Mercenary Audio guys pitch in here, I wouldn't mind knowing more about this for later.

[seaneldon]

My comments?

Weird thread. Part of me wants to send it to the Lounge. Part of me doesn't want to comment.

It depends on everything. Dan went into more detail, but he could have said it just as easily with that single sentence.

[Mixwell]

Lounge? Maybe....

Can't speak for others......

MERC POLICIES (http://www.mercenary.com/policies.html)

I think Dan summed it up perfectly....

so it seems fair to ask to demo the SSL X-Desk, but it would be crazy for me to demo the API 1608.


Fair indeed.

I would offer to send you the X-Desk we have in stock on evaluation, without question.

This is the Mercenary way.....

We're here to help you FIND THE RIGHT PRODUCT. Bottom line. The way I see this, is that I am trying to work with the customer towards the goals at hand, so as to identify the RIGHT choices. At the end of the day, If I didn't care what we were talking about and I let you try every compressor and mic pre, mixer and converter on the shelf and all of them came back, I would #1, probably get fired, maybe....#2 wonder why none of them were working for you??????? The "preview" type demos, when ABUSED to me, is THE slippery slope to the endless mind fuck of nonsense that exists with gear selection.

The truth is its the man: and NOT THE MACHINES.

I understand gear selection, as it is part of my art, but I don't think demoing EVERYTHING is worthwhile to the overall outcome. I think there is a reasonable limit to how many products its going to take to figure it out. I mean, its another variable condition based on the product, the end user and the end users application. I am not saying you are suggesting demoing everything under the sun, but really.......at some point the gear demoing has got to stop and you've gotta make music right? I dunno. I'm not sure, perhaps I am just tired from the very long AES convention. At the end of the day, if demoing to ultimately return [not the worst thing possible, really just inquire with your dealer for availability] with more frequency than paying, happier customers, than I think its fair to say that this accommodation is not our business nor interest, as there are many rental services that already provide this service for customers on a daily basis. I want to place the right product in your studio, and not bounce metal boxes back and forth the country. And again, I don't really feel that giving our customer's endless previews of stock or specially ordered, custom built devices in demand from the manufacture is helpful to either party involved. Its a play by play move based on the events in motion.

With regard to the console, and not the rack mixer, I would suggest to you that air fair is reasonable these days, and there are very many studios working daily with the aforementioned thunder stick. Give them a call and see if its a bother to sit in on a session. Maybe even rent some time to throw some tracks through the desk. Whatever it takes. Either that or take a trip to 8301 Patuxent Range Road Jessup, MD 20794, with an appointment to check out the console. I know I'd be on a plane before spending that much money on something so palpable. Though, I've already laid hands on the beast a few times and know what its about.

[Sultan of Swing]

Thanks everyone. I'm pleased and not too surprised at the range of responses. I was trying to provoke a bit of discussion that might help someone new to recording understand the relationship between buyers and sellers. Also, the local pro audio shop I had a long relationship with has closed, and I have been thinking about what it means when you no longer have a face to face guy to help you make gear decisions.

The way I see it, my job as a buyer is to find companies and people that I think are smart, well informed, have reasonable prices, and are interested in doing the best they can for me. Once I find them, I need to show some loyalty, and understand that they and their company need to make a living so they can continue to do the things I value them for. The sellers job, besides the things mentioned above, is to try to learn enough about me to give honest advice. I don't want flip answers. I expect you to ask me some questions and maybe suggest something I hadn't thought of.

I liked Adam's comments a lot, but he doesn't know me, so perhaps he thinks I'm a hobbyist or somebody always chasing the flavor of the week. The truth is, my studio is a business, and has been for a couple of decades. I'm not rich, there's no corporation behind me, so I need to be smart about everything, including purchases. Also, I don't have time for endless demos and comparisons. I need to make a good choice, put it to work, and be able to depend on it. I do my research, figure out my options, then go to my preferred vendor, and hopefully they will have insight that helps me reach a final decision. Sometimes I need to try something to make sure.

The Mercenary guys showed some honesty and a bit of edginess in their comments. I like that.

Ok, I'm tired of my own thread. Let's play ball, and move some mics....